No Water Change In Six Months

65 posts • Page 5 of 7

Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


natalie265
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Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by natalie265

That is great that your ammonia and nitirite is at 0. Those are two obvious and important indicators of aquarium health. But one concern i have, that others have mentioned, is that the chemestry of our tanks is much more complicated than those two indicators. Even more complicated than ph, temp, hardness and so on. There could be other things going on in your tank that you aren't testing for. Someone mentioned hormones as one example.

Okiimiru, you said that you only change your water once in a blue moon, but then you said you change your water every 1-3 months. To me, once every 1-3 months is infrequent, but i wouldn't say that is comparable with dispensing with water changes all together. Also, yasher is attempting this without the use of a filter. And yasher, you have some nice looking plants, but i don't know if slow growing anubias is the best choice for filtering your water. (Those are mostly anubias, aren't they?).

I think this is a fantastic debate and i am glad that things seem to be going well for you, yasher. I will be surprised if you can make it the full year without calamity striking, but i am open to the possiblity that it won't. Now, remind me what i get if YOU lose the bet.


Okiimiru
 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by Okiimiru

"Okiimiru, you said that you only change your water once in a blue moon, but then you said you change your water every 1-3 months. To me, once every 1-3 months is infrequent, but i wouldn't say that is comparable with dispensing with water changes all together."

Lol, true. I like to build redundancy into my life support system designs. I feel like that's a good idea. But that doesn't mean the water changes are necessary. I've gone six months without one with no problems before. They're really just aesthetic, for me, because I've got mulch in my tank and the water turns yellow eventually. The water changes make the tank clear again.

It's not like I have goldfish, who secrete a hormone to limit their own growth in small bodies of water. My fish species happens to be fairly growth inhibiting hormone free (to the best of my knowledge. Their maximum length is one inch, so setting up a mechanism to inhibit their own growth could at the most only make a difference of a half inch anyway, lol). The plants that I currently have also are fairly low in hormone production. I could spend some money on activated carbon to remove them from the water if they were. But even so Diana Walstad says she's not really concerned about plant hormone growth inhibition. She said in her book that competition between plant species is not a big problem for her.

To quote Diana Walstad from http://theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_B ... Filtration ,
"I have been surprised at how little biological filtration is actually required in my planted aquaria. When I gradually decreased biological filtration by removing the packing media from the canister filters, the fish continued to do well. Finally, years later I took the decisive step and removed the canister and outside filters altogether and just used cheap internal pumps to circulate the water. Fish never missed a beat; the planted tank itself is a filter!

Aquatic plants, then, are much more than ornaments or aquascaping tools. They remove ammonia from the water. Furthermore, they remove it within hours (Fig 1, Table 2). When setting up a planted tank, there is no need to wait 8 weeks to prevent ‘new tank syndrome’. (Nitrifying bacteria require several weeks to establish themselves in new tanks and make biological filtration fully functional.) Thus, I have several times set up a new tank with plants and fish all on the same day."

Plants can be an excellent sole filter for the aquarium. Keep them happy, keep them growing, and they'll remove nitrogenous and metallic toxins from the water for you. Anyone interested in more information on Diana Walstad's tanks really would benefit from reading "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". I think the e-book is like $10 or something, or maybe your local library will obtain a copy for you to read for free. It's a very interesting read. :)


yasherkoach
 
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Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by yasherkoach

Okiimiru - I will purchase this book about plants, very interesting

Natalie - thanks for the compliments even though they're made with apprehension on your part (it's cool)...of course there may be other things going on in the tank...but like I supposed in the statements I made in my most recent reply, all is fine in the tank right now but because I don't do water changes, the "taken for granted" chemical testing all fish keepers must perform is all of a sudden thrown out the window and therefore I must be doing something wrong - which I do disagree with such reasoning...reason I bought anubias only was I wanted the plants and the fish to grow together in the tank, I wanted a plant type to slowly grow over time as the tank itself grows over time, understand? I have achieved this - if you look at the 2008 pictures, the anubias were very small plants, now they are flourishing all over the one side of the tank (I deliberately put the plants on one side for I wanted an open space unobstructed for 2/3 of the tank for the fish I keep need a lot of open space to swim); almost every day, the plants feed off the direct sunlight especially between 11am to 1pm when the sun is very potent, there are new shoots, they appear to pop up out of the blue, turning into beautiful green foliage, shooting up toward the sun (it's a very beautiful thing to watch, how the plants tilt their leaves toward the sun rays, as if they "feed" off the sun rays (which they actually do, all plants do this but to watch it so close in a tank as mine, it is truly amazing to watch this part of nature...as for filtering the tank, I am unsure too but so far, the oxygen levels (when I do test for oxygen) is well within its parameter (8.2)), as for filtering itself - I do plan to buy the book Okiimiru recommends, possibly in that book it will give some sort of understanding as to "filtering" the tank by plants alone...thanks much for saying it's a fantastic debate - I wish Alasse was involved, for even though she can be crass sometimes, at least she speaks with honesty and commitment to the hobby - as for what you get if I lose (though I doubt it very much...on September 16, 2011 I started no water change, but I plan to give it to October 1, 2012, so it's definitely one full year without a water change...I take new pictures, test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, oxygen, iron, phosphorus, calcium, ph (high and low), temperature and hardness, I will give all those results plus pictures on October 1, 2012..................but if I lose, well I will give you the choice as to what I must do (one consideration is that I put all the filters, lighting, water pumps back into the tank and provide pictures that prove I did, that I do do water changes, I do do siphons of the gravel and/or anything else you can come up with...sound fair?

Thanks much for the responses


natalie265
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Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by natalie265

yeah, i get why you chose anubias and it sounds like they are working so far, but faster growing plants require more nutrients, so i bet would act as better filters for your tank. Just a thought.

Alasse is great and i have huge amounts of admiration for her. She is an expert fish keeper and her tanks are among the most beautiful on this website. Not sure why she backed out of this one. I've always loved watching alasse and yasher go head-to-head. It has made this site interesting and you both have great knowledge that we can all learn from.

How about if i win, you have to post a topic that says something to the effect of, "natalie is the best fish keeper on earth and we would all be wise to heed her expert advice"??


yasherkoach
 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by yasherkoach

Natalie - if that all it takes to please you - you're on

as for more plants, fast growing plants to filter the tank...I may heed to your advice (and Okiimiru) and do just that..........of course I could do some research on this, but if you guys have a few plants you recommend, I'd be more than happy to purchase them...and then, once they are planted, I will take pictures so you can see the result


Okiimiru
 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by Okiimiru

"as for more plants, fast growing plants to filter the tank...I may heed to your advice (and Okiimiru) and do just that"

Measure ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. If ammonia is not equal to 0 ppm, if nitrite is not equal to 0 ppm, and if nitrate is not under 30 ppm then it would be worth your time to add more plants. If ammonia and nitrite are 0 ppm and nitrate is below 30 ppm then you don't need to add any more plants.


yasherkoach
 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by yasherkoach

thanks Okiimiru

no offense Natalie, but I will leave the tank as is


yasherkoach
 
Posts: 1306
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:24 pm

Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by yasherkoach

well all, I am approaching the one year milestone of no water changing...no overhead lighting (sunlight only on one side of 55 gallon tank), no filtration, and no chemicals added to the tank

In the last six months, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 30-40 also I only lost one fish in the last 13 weeks (due to the redtail shark annoying the scissortail rasbora)

October 10, 2012 is one year...but I plan to give it to November 10, 2012........at that date, Natalie owes me a virtual kiss (((smiles)))


Alasse
 
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Location: QLD Australia

Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by Alasse

30/40 nitrates is too high in my opinion and not healthy. Thats all i have to add on this


natalie265
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Re: No Water Change In Six Months

by natalie265

Glad to get an update!

Alasse has made a good point. We should have been clear on our definition of a healthy tank before we made our bets! I wouldn't be satisfied with nitrate at 30-40 in my own tank. But i still must admit that things are going better for you than i thought they would. I can't believe its almost been a year.

No Water Change In Six Months

65 posts • Page 5 of 7

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