Rams Had babies`

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Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


bonese
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:37 pm

Rams Had babies`

by bonese

For the first time its my Bolivian rams first batch of spawn. PLEASE tell me what to do (DIZZ)! i need you at a time like this. ITs very exciting


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

OK, give me some info. Are they still eggs? Are they in a spot you can get a divider and separate them from the rest of the tank? Tell me where they are at in this saga :-)

Mine just spawned AGAIN, the 3rd time in as many months! I did not use a divider this time, just scooped up some fry on day 2 of free swimming and put them in a net in the fry tank. All of the left over fry with the parents are now gone, only took 1/2 a day.


bonese
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:37 pm

by bonese

They still are eggs. Shes laying them as we speak and they are both gaurding them, sitting on a peice of driftwood. they arent white but i can not remove them from the tank tonight. Can i remove them first thing in the morning if i leave the light on over night to try and saviour something?


bonese
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:37 pm

by bonese

This was just taken.
94521-IMG_3408.jpg


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

DO NOT DO ANYTHING!! Leave the eggs alone. The parents will not let anything happen to them until they become free swimming and strong enough to venture too far away from them.

The parents fan them, then as they hatch into wigglers the parents help them hatch and move them into a pit. Unless you know what you are doing (even I don't know how) the eggs will die on you without the parents help. They will take about 3 days to hatch, so say probably Friday. Then another 4 days in wiggler stage. I always put a divider in the tank to separate the parents from the rest of the tank mates. I only take fry away from the parents after they have been free swimming for a couple days. They are extremely fragile. Mine spawned in the middle of the tank this time and they protected them wonderful. I did not put up the divider this time because I have enough fry now. They lost the rest of the fry that I left to the tank occupants because the fry wandered off and the parents didn't see them. If they do they will go after the stray fry and put them back in the swarm.

So, this is the time frame:
**The parents will hover over the eggs, fanning them, taking turns. My female is the main caretaker. The eggs are a tan color. If any die or are infertile the parents remove them. Mine sometimes partially cover the eggs with sand.

**In a day or so you will start to see spots on the eggs, these are the eyes.

**A day after the spots appear, they will start to hatch. As they hatch (they look like eggs with wiggly tails) the parents will put them in a pit they dug. You can tell they are about to hatch because the parents start taking turns digging pits.

**The parents will stay above the wiggler pit, still fanning them until they start to swim. Do not be alarmed when the parents pick up a mouthful and look like they are chewing, they are actually cleaning them. They may also move them a few times to different pits. Mine prefer to dig a pit in the roots under a plant, or next to a rock.

*On day 7, this time next week, you will see the fry start to hover in the water. They are weak swimmers the first couple days. If you want to raise some this is the time to get some. The most I have had make it to any size is 10 out of at least 150 fry. I guess that is why they have so many. You can get a breeders net and put the free swimmers in that to raise them till they are big enough to move to a 10 gallon. I always put a clump of Java Moss in the bottom to catch food. If you put the breeders net in the main tank and have other cichlids, let me know because the others can suck the fry thru the net. I have come up with a way to stop that.

The day they become free swimmers is the day you will need to start feeding them. I use frozen Baby Brine Shrimp. You can get it at your LFS. I thaw out a clump in tank water, then use an eye dropper to squirt the shrimp right down into the fry swarm. I do this 3-4 times a day. Be prepared to get bit LOL, the parents are very good protectors! Make sure that where they are does not have strong water movement or they food will disappear before the fry can eat it good. This is the BBS I use: I get it at my LFS
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... catid=8890

If you put a divider up and leave them with the parents, you will need to cover the divider with fine mesh netting and make sure its tight against the walls, because they can get right thru the holes. I prefer to do this the first 3 weeks, because its so neat to watch the parents take care of them.

Be prepared to have your face stuck to the glass for the next couple weeks LOL.

I will talk you thru the rest when the time comes, OK? For now leave them be and let them do their job :-)

I attached a picture of my divider setup.
8f718-Divider.JPG


bonese
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:37 pm

by bonese

I added a picture to my previous post, the only thing im worried about is my golden nugget pleco and my substrate being too large, there is flourite underneath the larger rocks which is smaller but the rocks in the gravel arent too big, about medium


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

Don't worry about the Pleco, the parents will not let him near. They are extremely protective! I have noticed that one parent stays awake at all times. While one sleeps the other is awake and watching. I even found my male napping during the day, so figured he stayed awake all night.

Hopefully they will be able to dig deep enough to get to the finer substrate. I have had the best luck after switching to sand. But my first batch made it in large gravel. The Rams used a natural pit in a chuck of lava rock. All you can do is hope. I have tried to hatch eggs myself and they all died on me. I think in the case of SW cichlids, because the eggs are smaller and more fragile its easier to harm them. They will probably dig pits by the roots of your Amazons. That is where mine like best. Is there any pits or indents in that wood? They may use that too.

Also, this batch may not make it, just from the fact that they are new parents. The more they spawn the better they get. :-) And if so, expect to only get around 10 past tiny fry stage. Even tho I have serrated 100 or more at a time, I ended up with 1 from my Dec spawn and 10 from my Jan spawn. I scooped up about 60 last night and found about 10 dead in the net today. They are just so fragile that they die no matter how careful you are.


bonese
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:37 pm

by bonese

So i leave the eggs in the community tank unhatched with the parents. When they hatch, become free swimming take a breeders net with the parents or use a container and scoop them up and put them in there own tank. Im moving the mated pair to their own tank just for them to mate in. I do need to know when it is safe to move the eggs. Would you recommend this other seperate ram tnak?


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

You can either put them in a breeders net or move them into their own grow out tank. I have had the best luck putting mine in a breeders net for the first 3 weeks after they become free swimming. They are so tiny and weak that finding food is hard for them in a tank. This way the food is easy for them to get.

From my experience, moving the parents with them is a bad idea. They will freak out at the new surroundings and not care for the young, maybe even eat them. It only takes about 10 minutes for them to forget the fry once they are removed. If you put one in with the fry in a breeders net you are running a huge risk of them eating the fry. Even moving the eggs with them, most likely they will eat the eggs or ignore them and they will die.

If you are going to set up a separate tank for just the Rams, do it after this is all over. It will give them time to get used to the new surroundings. Rams are actually very skittish fish about stuff like that. You cannot just drop them in a tank and expect a spawn like you can with Africans and other fish like Tetras, etc. It will take a month or more for them to get used to it. Mine did not spawn again after the first time for over a year. Set this tank up with sand (you can get a 50 pound bag of play sand at Home Depot for $3, rinse it GOOD) plants and rocks for them to spawn on. I would put some fish with them, like a small group of Tetras that you can move once they spawn.

I wanted to leave my Rams alone in the tank for my Dec spawn so moved everyone else into another tank. They did real good. But I knew my Rams and knew that if I tried moving them instead of everyone else they would have freaked so bad the spawn would have died. I lost all but one fry from that batch because the filter and air stone current was too strong and they could not find the food.

What about getting a divider and giving them about 1/4th of the tank to raise them in? You can scoot the branch over to the side (expect to get bit!) and then put a divider in. I did this once when they spawned on a rock in the middle. I slowly moved the rock over to the side of the tank, getting attacked the whole time, then put the divider in. I left the papa in with the fry for a month. There was very little water movement, just what came between the divider. The water was still enough the fry found the food easy.

This is like the divider I am talking about: I get mine at Petsmart or Petco
http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ct ... nkdividers

Here is a great article on Ram spawns. It really helped me the first time around :-)
http://www.apisto.bravepages.com/Ram%20article.htm


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

Here are some pics of my setups in the past. These first 3 are as of 5 minutes ago. The breeders net is in the 10 gallon fry tank, that has about 40 little guys. A mix of Bolivian Ram fry, 10 of those, going in the parents tank soon, 12 Electric Yellow fry and 30 Red Zebra fry. I will be moving all the Africans to the 20 as soon as I move the 20 to the 30.

Today's fry, about 30 in there:
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... CT0069.jpg

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... CT0066.jpg

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... CT0068.jpg

This is the divider with papa on one side with his brood of fry
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... ivider.jpg

This is the only one who made it from the Dec spawn. "Jr" is now about 1/2", they grow real slow
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... 0019-1.jpg

These are the Jan spawn. There is only 10 left. They are in the 10 gallon grow out tank. They are still under 1/2", but big enough to go into my community tank now.
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... CT0004.jpg

Rams Had babies`

17 posts • Page 1 of 2

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