Dither fish and Target fish

19 posts • Page 1 of 2

Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


Alfio7663
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:00 am

Dither fish and Target fish

by Alfio7663

Hey everyone.

For those who aren't aware of what dither fish / target fish are, here is some information about them

Dither fish are schooling, mid-water swimming fish that are used to bring hiding fishes out into the open. Smart fish like cichlids use the presence of smaller fish around them to judge the degree of danger around them. The idea is “surely if hundreds of those little tetras are swimming around above me, there must not be any imminent danger”. In aquaria, many schooling fish are active and constantly swim from one end of the tank to the other whether there is danger or not. Schooling fish find security in numbers and so, do not dive for cover when danger approaches, so they will keep swimming when you approach the tank.

Target fish are not used for the same purpose – they are used to divert the pent-up protective aggression within a mated pair of cichlids from each other or their pair bond may erode. Aggression in cichlids is put on hold only while the pair are “in the mood”. Having other fish to beat up on has saved the lives of many a female cichlid who is not quite ready for spawning.

My question is, what are some good fish that make both a good target fish and a good dither fish? I currently have a 140 litre tank (approximately 38 gallons) with 2 male electric blue cichlids, 1 female and 1 male electric yellow cichlids and 2 Chinese algae eaters.

My priority lies with the target fish. So if you don't know a fish that makes a good target and dither fish, then just let me know what target fish are good.

I have a concern. How are fish such as Australian rainbow fish or neon tetras supposed to survive in water that has pH of above 8? doesn't the target / dither fish need to be able to survive in the same water parameters as the African cichlids i posses?

Keen on advice.

Kind Regards,
Alfio


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

I will comment on the dither/target fish question in a bit as I am in a hurry, but before that - you have major stocking problems independent of that question. Your electric blues (I assume you are referring to Ahli) will get up to 8" so they are way too big for your tank. Also, putting two males in a 38 gallon aquarium is like locking you in a closet with a doberman. The dominant one will slaughter the other. The same thing holds true for your yellow labs. Having a 1:1 ratio of male to females means that poor female is going to be chased until she dies.

When you have African cichlids, you have one of two options:

1) Have one male per species and no females (species that look alike count as one species)
2) Stock the species in a 1 male to 3-4 female ratio so his chasing is spread out to several females and the others have time to rest.

You can get away with multiple males per species if you have a large enough tank, but yours is not nearly big enough. Before you worry about what target fish to buy, you really need to correct this problem. I'm in no way trying to be mean, but I would hate for your tank to be decimated one day when you come home. The two male Ahli won't give a hoot how many target fish are around as they'll be too busy trying to kill each other once they reach their mature sizes.


BurgerKing7704
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:03 pm

by BurgerKing7704

I agree with miami, he always gets things right.

As for your water chemistry question, Rainbowfish are tough buggers that are able to live in different water parameters with ease, though it's not good to transfer them from water with a ph of 6 to a tank with a ph of 8 in a matter of minutes or seconds. It's best to slowly add water from the tank to their bag(from the lfs) over an hour if the water parameters are different.

But dithers arent going to make a difference in your tank, there will be too much aggression for them to change anything in that tank.

It would be real handy if you knew exactly which electric blue you had. There are a few different species often referred to as electric blue; Melanochromis Johanni, Melanochromis Maingano, Pseudotropheus Socofoli and Scienachromis Ahli(hopefully spelt them right). All of those fish are given the name electric blue so it'd be best if you googled each to find out which one you have.


alfio
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:18 am

by alfio

I'd like to start off by saying thank you so much to everyone that has replied and to this site. The unbelieveable feedback is priceless.

Can you guys tell me if this is the right thing to do.

1) Keep the two chinese algae eaters
2) Keep one of the male electric blue cichlids
3) Trade in one of the male electric blue cichlids
4) Keep the one female and one male electric yellow cichlid
5) buy 2 -3 more female electric yellow cichlids
6) buy a school (5- 10) australian rainbow fish or zebra danios (Or a mixture of both)

Please advice what else I should do. I would like to have a nice pretty tank to look at.

Current pH is approximately 8 so the fish need to survive in that pH.

Keen on advice.

Kind regards,
Alfio


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

BK is right about the electric blue thing. I was assuming you had an Ahli as that is the most common species that is called an electric blue, but the others are referred to as electric blues as well (just like bk said). We need to know exactly which species you have before we recommend what you should do to your stock. Google the four species BK listed and let us know which one you have. Then we can comment on your options. Until we know exactly what species it is, we can't help all that much.

We'll also need to know what filtration you have.


alfio
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:18 am

by alfio

Thanks Miami and BK. I'm pretty sure the electric blue I have is a Sciaenochromis Ahli. The filter I have is one that attaches to the glass on the side (via suction cups) sucks in water and shoots it out from the top. This site contains all the relevant information http://www.hailea.com/E-hailea/product1/HL-BT700.htm

Kind Regards,
Alfio





I have included photos of both the electric blue cichlid and the filter.
f691a-DSC03196.JPG
dbb85-DSC03199.JPG


BurgerKing7704
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:03 pm

by BurgerKing7704

Yupp, you have an ahli. You WILL NOT be able to keep this fish happy in this tank, unfortunately you'll have to return it to the fish stor or buy at least a 75g tank(Even this would be a tight fit). The labs should be ok size wise, but 3 or 4 would be the max IMO.

If i read the info about your filter right you should be ok, for now, but down the road you should add a HOB filter or something(overfilter an overstocked tank)

This is my opinion, Miami, how about you?


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

Yeah, BK is right - both ahli have to go back to the store. They will get way too big and aggressive for your tank.

Also, he is correct about your filter. With cichlids, you need to overfilter. Your type of filter will not be adequate as they grow. You're probably ok right now when they are small, but as they grow you'll want to invest in a HOB filter or canister filter.

Now, onto your stocking - You have one of two options in my opinion.

1) You can have a species tank of yellow labs. This would mean you have 1 male and 3:4 females. When the labs are young it is going to be impossible to tell the sex except by venting so if you do not want to vent your fish, you will have to watch them as they mature and make sure you have this ratio. You could then include your school of target fish with them. With this setup, you'll lose some of the variation in color, but you'll get the benefit of watching them reproduce as labs mate like crazy.

2) You can have a tank of several different mbuna species with one per species. With this setup, you HAVE to make sure that you pick species that are relatively mild for mbuna standards. With your size tank, a single crazy guy can wipe out your tank. You also need to ensure that you have enough hiding spaces and you need to make sure that none of the species have the same coloring/patterning. For example, possible species would include a Rusty cichlid, an Acei, a Yellow Lab, or a Red Zebra. If you choose this setup then I would go with four species (1 specimen each) and then stock the rest of your tank with your target fish. With this setup, you'll miss out on watching them reproduce, but you'll gain more diversity in your tank in terms of color.

These are pretty much your only options with mbunas. If you upgrade your tank or choose other types of cichlids like the shell-dwellers then you'll have more flexibility. Let us know what you are thinking and we can fine-tune your setup. Good luck.


Tmercier834747
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:33 pm

by Tmercier834747

Just wanted to clarify things a bit with acclimatizing fish. A good and simple way is to take them from a bag and put them into a clean tupperware container or something assuredly inert which is 4-10" deep. Place it on the floor in front of the aquarium.

Then get some airline hose and decide how much it will take for one end of the hose to be about 6-8" deep within the aquarium, to the other tip resting on the edge of the tupperware container (you can tape it there), allowing a few inches of slack for the ''pretzel'' knot you'll be putting in it. Its important the end rests as far above the water line as possible to allow the water coming out to release surface tension in the container during the acclimation process.

Put your one end in the aquarium and close the lid (but not too tight) which should keep it from falling out, or going too deep and sucking up sand/other junk.

About 8-12" from the opposite end tie a knot which you'll use to limit how fast the water is passing through your siphon, It can be a real simple knot and doesn't have to be pulled tight at all to limit the flow efficiently.

Then simply give the new-fish end a small suck to get the siphon started and pull the knot until you're getting 2-3 drips per second depending on how much of an adjustment it will be for the new fish from the LFS's water. The more of an adjustment the more time it'll need to acclimate and under most circumstances where you're talking +/- 0.75 I'd be thinking at least an hour. As the container fills, to allow more time to acclimate, simply remove some water with a cup from time to time. This is commonly called the drip method and there are several different ways to go about it. That's just the one I use.
21267-here.jpg


alfio
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:18 am

by alfio

Wow, what an in depth description.Thanks heaps dude. What I usually do is very similar. I put the fish in a bucket and slowly add water from a cup which I obtained from the aquarium. I don't pour the whole cup at once; just little by little.


When I first started with aquariums I used to float the bag in the aquarium for 15 mins then open the bag up, add a cup of water, leave it for a further 10 mins den put the fish in. But I realised that changes in the pH level need more a slower and more effective method (i.e. your explaination of the drop method).

Thanks for your reply and brilliant detail.

Kind Regards,
Alfio

Dither fish and Target fish

19 posts • Page 1 of 2

12
Display posts from previous: Sort by: