PLEASE HELP !

30 posts • Page 2 of 3

Discuss all topics related to saltwater / reef tanks.


amygentry08
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:59 am

by amygentry08

tank has been running about 2 months. we never cycled it dunno if thats okay or not lol. but we learned about it just recently!

so will the white dead algea just go away? i heard/read somewhere to get a brush & scrub it off.

also whats good advice to spread coraline to lace rock? we've got a little spotting but not covering everything.
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AquamanCA
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:02 pm

by AquamanCA

Please excuse the long drawn out response. I know it is "wordy" but I am doing so simply to help educate you and hopefully guide you into becoming a successful aquarists. In my business I am always educating my clients so they will be able to know what/why/how their tanks live and thrive.

Not cycling your tank...uhm no that is not really ok. However, if your rock was completely cured you may be alright. Throughout the years I have designed and setup literally thousands of tanks and often have done so with cured rock with no problems whatsoever. Although I never advise my clients to do this. I don't see any livestock in your tank, is this correct? Have you been testing the water and monitoring the nitrification? It is possible that your rock has finished curing in the tank. If so I would highly suggest a major water change...50% or more. All of this is another topic which I'd be happy to assist you with. Just let me know.

On to your other questions/issues...
Will the bleached algae just go away? The answer is no. Should you brush/scrub it off? Absolutely NOT! Some will tell you it is ok to do this. However, in order to understand the ramifications of scrubbing your rock, rock that is in a new system, you need to know and understand what is happening in your tank right now and in the near future. The most important time for your tank is the first year. More than any other type of aquarium, a reef and live rock fish tank is evolving into an ecosystem and it is that first year when this development process is at its most crucial and delicate. What you do during these first months will have a great impact on the life of the system for as long as you have it. So when you scrub your rock, assuming it has fully cured, you will remove beneficial microorganisms that are growing/developing/spreading. You never want to do anything that will remove or kill these microorganisms. (This is different than scrubbing rock that is curing and has lots of die-off that needs to be removed.) Yes these organisms can and will reproduce and spread, ultimately replacing those lost, but why force your system to work harder to replenish what it already had? I can understand that you might feel the bleached corallines may not be the most visually appealing, but leaving them will outweigh anything that may happen should you remove them.

Lets address what caused the bleaching...doing so will help you to avoid bleaching in the future. One answer is light shock. Another cause could be the curing process. Not knowing what your rock looked like when you set-up your system, I will go with the simplest answer and blame it on a combination of both. Die-off is self explanatory but light shock needs an explanation. There are several species of Coralline/calcareous algaes. Some require one type of lighting while others flourish with another type. So which is best? There is no exact answer. Tests show that most will grow and flourish with minimal reef lighting - 1.6 watts per gallon with a combination of 10000K and Actinic. Altering this can cause light shock but often the bleached corallines will eventually adapt. I have seen some beautiful results with tanks using only 2-40watt 50-50 and 2-40watt actinics. As an example I attached a pic of an experimental tank I ran a few years ago.

I have a question about your use of lace rock. Why are you using that instead of live rock? Was it a cost savings choice? The reason I ask is because, although it will eventually be seeded by the live rock, it will never become live rock. Just my opinion, but you would be better off using some base/rubble rock in place of the lace. It is relatively cheap but has all the benefits of premium live rock...at least the base rock I have access to. And your tank looks small so you are not going to need a lot of rock anyway so you might want to consider using all premium rock.

How to propagate corallines onto your lace rock:
Ironically this is a topic I have had numerous discussions about with both Julian Sprung and Charles Delbeek. We all agree that a simple and surefire way to do it is by...
turning off your filter
turn off your protein skimmer (you do have a protein skimmer right?)
run a small power head inside the tank to maintain water flow
take a single edge razor blade and gently scrape the calcareous algae to release/seed the water column
after at least one hour turn the filter and skimmer back on
maintain the water parameters as follows:
SG = 1.024
Calcium = 350 - 480 ppm 400ppm would be optimum
Alkalinity = 7-12 dKH
add Strontium
Phosphates at or near zero
Nitrates = 5 ppm or less

Follow these steps and you should see significant growth in 8 weeks maybe less. I do not know any specifics about your tank, i.e size, filter, skimmer, lighting, etc. However, if it is at all possible use the lower lighting I mentioned before and it will help speed up the growth. If afterwards you go back to higher intensity lights, do so slowly...you will be acclimating your system to more lighting.
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jdak702
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:26 am

by jdak702

Great article there... I agree all the way.


amygentry08
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:59 am

by amygentry08

AquamanCA: you are AWESOME! thank you so much for taking the time to reply! i ask many questions at the the local fish store, but they know a limited amount of info.

as far as our tank goes, it is a 30 gallon tank. lighting: T5 HO light fixture with one 420/460nm and one 10,000K lamps. filter: marineland emperor 280. powerhead: Hydor Koralia Evolution 750 gph. protein skimmer: marineland SeaClone 100. heater: fluval 100 watt. would you say this equipment is up to par for our tank size?

we do have livestock in the tank all of which have been in there for the past month. we have 3 blue/green chromis. 2 green clown gobys. 1 sandstar. 1 feather duster. several snails & hermits. & a few purple mushrooms. live & lace rock. live & dead/lace sand.

when we started the tank the pet store informed us it would be fine to put the live rock right in the tank. so we did not cure or cycle anything. is there something we could/should do now that would be beneficial to the tank? and what is rock curing exactly? would it require a 2nd tank or can you cure with the livestock in the tank? i am extremely new to this & full of questions!! we used lace rock & some lace sand under live sand because it was suggested also by the pet store personel as more cost efficient while we were setting up the tank. which i completly regret now.

like i said before, our tank has been up about 2 months. the past month our water has tested great. we don't have a calcium tester yet, but amonnia, nitrates/nitrates, salinity, ph have all been fine. however, the first month we had only 2 clown fish in the tank, both died. but i believe that was because when the water evaporated, i added saltwater instead of just water & stress coat. so the salinity got extremely high.

if the tank isn't cycled, could/will the fish die? or since we have had fish the past month & water testing has been fine does that mean it could have finished curing in the tank? if our water is testing fine should we still do that major water change?

so the white "die-off" or "bleached algea" whichever it may be, i should just let it be? do you think our lighting caused light shock or that its the not being cured that is the reason we have this white on several of our rocks? i believe the white may have been on the rocks when we bought them. but it seems the white has gotten A LOT brighter than we purchased it.

will the purple mushrooms be alright with the lighting we have? & how many hours do you suggest for them & the growth of coraline algea? also what do you think of purple up? or is that simlar or the same as Strontium? how often would you suggest that we should use the method of turning off our filter for an hour & letting the scrapped algea go throughout the tank?

Thank you again for all your help! I am attaching some up to date photos of the tank!
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amygentry08
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:59 am

by amygentry08

here is a picture of our mushrooms, they are all on the bright purple rock. should it be placed lower in the tank? & can you tell me what the name of this is? i was told purple mushroom, but that is to vague. the white mushroom #5 is on the same rock. is that the same kind of mushroom?
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jdak702
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:26 am

by jdak702

aquaman, how did you get that flame scallop to stay on the rock in both photos? Mine would always hide from light. amy, The shrooms look kind of shriveled. What did you say you keep your salinity set to? I think your tank just needs time to settle and heal. I think purple up is a gimmick honestly. Get yourself some 2part of any brand and you will see it work.


AquamanCA
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:02 pm

by AquamanCA

Amy, glad I can be of help. Its always been my belief that one of the great aspects of this hobby is people's willingness to share knowledge. None of us started out knowing everything and by asking questions and talking to others we have learned what we know today. I've been doing this for 35 years, spent my first 2 years in college as a marine biology major, and I still don't know everything and am learning something new all the time. The hobby is constantly changing and evolving and I have found that I often will learn something, or look at it from a different perspective by listening to novice and intermediate hobbyists.

I need to correct something I previously said and expand on my explanation. I misspoke earlier when I was talking about cycling a tank with cured rock...I guess that happens when my mind and typing fingers are out of sync LOL

It is perfectly acceptable to cycle a tank with cured rock, however I do not believe that fully cured rock can be found at any LFS. What you need to know is that by cycling with "cured" rock you can often get what is called a "false cycle". We all want to believe that our rock we purchase has been completely cured. However we must remind ourselves what path the rock has taken before we finally get it into our tanks. An abridged example: after the LFS gets the rock it has been sitting wrapped in newspaper in a box for possibly weeks. The LFS stacks it in vats with powerheads, hopefully several poswerheads so they have massive water flow. If they think about it, have time or even care, they will change the water in the vats once a week...we can almost never know if they are actually doing this. Many LFS will have multiple vats so they can move the rock over as it "cures". We come along and buy some rock from the "cured" vat. Remember this rock has been stacked on top of itself and most has not been exposed to the massive water flow or light. It may look decent and not have any noticeable smells. NOTE: ALWAYS SMELL THE ROCK YOU PURCHASE!!! Now we get the rock home and put it in our tank. It is exposed to much more water flow and light in our tanks than in those tightly packed vats at the LFS. The rock can/will now go through an additional curing process. We think it is fully cured, our water parameters all check out perfectly so we run back to the LFS and get that cool fish we have had our eye on. Fast forward a couple of days...suddenly the rock begins to have more die-off that is coming from inside the rock not the outside surface area. Our rock is going through another curing and we discover that we had a "false cycle". I am not saying that this will happen everytime, but it can and does happen. We just need to be prepared and ready to deal with it should it happen. We can avoid problems by waiting to add any livestock. We can also avoid problems, when adding additional rock to an established system, by keeping it in a bucket with powerheads for a couple weeks before adding it to our tank.

My reply is getting long and I am not even close to addressing all your questions and concerns. I have to run off and check in on a set-up one of my techs is doing so I will be back later to finish writing back to you.

To jdak: patience and persistence...the flame scallop actually kept moving to the back of the tank. I kept moving it and eventually it stayed. If yours is hiding from light try placing it lower in the tank, maybe even building a cave to place it inside of. It may also just be moving due to water flow and food supply.

Ok folks...I will be back later. Hopefully my tech hasn't gotten himself into too much trouble with the set-up LOL


AquamanCA
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:02 pm

by AquamanCA

Hello again Amy. Sorry for my delay getting back to finish my response. I went to check in on my tech doing an install and afterwards treated him to dinner...yep we had sushi LOL

Your equipment:
lighting looks good...I assume each bulb is 24w? This will be enough light for corals that require low to moderate lighting...mushrooms, zoanthus, and some LPS and soft corals. Part of the fun in the hobby is discovering what will thrive in your tank.
I'm not a big fan of Marineland's products, but I'm not going to tell you to go out and change everything. Are you using the "bio-wheel" that comes with the Emporer? If so I'd suggest you remove it. You may initially get a bacterial bloom but that will go away in a couple days. A bacterial bloom looks like a fog blew into your tank but the outer corners will still look clear. Its an imbalance but is rarely a concern. Also try to not use the carbon cartridge with the Emporer. Carbon actually has an affect on how well a protein skimmer works.

As far as your rock goes I'd just let it be for now. The tank has been running for 2 months so any die-off should have been completed by now. You might consider slowly exchanging some lace rock for premium live rock over a period of time. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I can give you some tips, including curing procedures...I'll leave that for another day. Just to add...if you do remove the bio-wheel do this AFTER you have replaced some lace rock with premium.

Get yourself a complete testing kit. In addition to the standard ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, temp and salinity you will also want to be testing for calcium, phosphates and dKH. Technically you can wait on the dKH (carbonate hardness) until you really get going and have more corals in your tank.

You mentioned adding "stresscoat". I am firmly opposed to the use of any stresscoat in any type of tank. I know my viewpoint on this is different than most people but I have a reason. What we want to do is make sure the water we are adding is chlorine free. So we can use deChlor for this, or better yet, RO/DI water. Whenever we add water or do a water change we are stressing our fish which causes them to breath harder. Their little gills are pumping hard. These so called "stresscoats" contain a slime that covers the fish including those hard working gills. In turn the fish becomes more stressed because their gills are clogged. Fish die from secondary causes that have been brought on by stress. So why do we want to stress them more? Also I do not like these stresscoats to get on my corals. I will use a stresscoat on occasions in a hospital tank though but this is different than using in the main tank.

I think your tank has fully cycled. So just let things be. Do your regular maintenance on a weekly basis. I always suggest a 10% water change once a week. When performing a water change, assuming you mix your own saltwater, never do what is sometimes referred to "hot mix". This is when you mix the salt and immediately add it to the tank. I suggest mixing at least a day or so prior to the water change. This allows the density and pH to equalize and you can adjust them accordingly prior to adding to the tank...salinity tends to go up as the water sits.

No way to be exactly sure what caused the white, bleached algae but as previously suggested, just let it go. If it appears brighter that is probably because any brown algaes that may have been on it before have all disappeared.

Yes your mushrooms will be ok. In fact your lighting is perfect for mushrooms. I suggest the lights be on 6-8 hours a day, although I've run tanks with the lights on for 12-14 hours a day. It comes down to preference and how the tank seems to be reacting...no 2 tanks are alike.

Don't waste your time or money on things like purple-up. Just use strontium. As you get more mushrooms you will also want to start adding iodine. Be careful with iodine though. Too much can cause iodine toxicity. Also make sure you are dosing your tank with calcium. Calcium is the building block of every reef and they cannot grow and thrive without this. Kalkwasser is the best and purest form of calcium. This will also help to maintain and stabilize your pH. Make sure to test and monitor calcium and dKH levels.

When you do the coralline propagation technique just do it one time. Remember it can take 8 weeks to see any significant new growth.

The common name for your mushrooms is actually "Purple Mushroom" LOL The scientific name is "Actinodiscus sp." They appear to be getting too much water flow, undoubtedly from your wavemaker. Move the wavemaker to the back of the side wall and I'd bet you see the mushrooms open up a lot. The white thing could be a mushroom, but it is closed also so it is difficult to identify. It may even be a small soft coral...something like a cabbage or toadstool.

I hope all of this helps. I know its a lot to take in at one time.

BTW, I just thought of something to add. This is not pointed at you, but thought you could file this info into your knowledge bank. Since joining this discussion site I have browsed various postings and have seen something I find very disturbing. I've seen where some people will mention using distilled water in their tanks or suggest to others to use distilled water. After reading all that I thought I should post an article discussing this practice. NEVER use distilled water!!! It can kill all the fish. Humans cannot even drink distilled water so I can't imagine someone would suggest using it. YIKES!!! I suppose that some may be misusing the term or may think that the DI in RO/DI means distilled...I don't know. Distilled water inhibits osmoregulation and will cause fish to die a horrible and painful death. YIKES!!! I will not get into the scientific aspects here, but simply advise anyone and everyone to please stop this horrible practice.


amygentry08
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:59 am

by amygentry08

Wow thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! I swear you are a genius! :)

What would a good rock smell like vs a bad one? lol

I think we will exchange lace for live, so any tips are appreciated & very much needed! lol

We are thinking of getting a baby powder brown tang. I realize they get very big compared to our tank size, but as soon as he gets about 6 inches we're gonna get a larger tank. Do you think our tank is ready for this guy??

When a new rock is bought from the LFS what is the suggested method of curing when we take them home???? Should we set up another small tank just for rock curing!? And, lets say the LFS uses less lighting than we do, how would you suggest we introduce it to our lighting?

What do you not like about the bio wheel! It is the one we have! :{ & are there any more cartriges than the carbon ones??


:))))


jdak702
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:26 am

by jdak702

A tang is not a good idea for your tank. First, it is way too small and second, your LR is not mature enough for its needs. HOB filters really aren't needed for marine tanks. Bio-balls and wheels are nitrate factories...

PLEASE HELP !

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