Can i run two filters in my 12 gallon tank??

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Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


retroangel65
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:45 pm

Can i run two filters in my 12 gallon tank??

by retroangel65

HI everyone, im new to the forum but your help is much appreciated!! I have a 12 gallon freshwater tank and a bioflow mini 280 filter pump. Fine sponge only inside filter. I have just one fantail goldfish about 2" long in the tank. Is my filter enough? ( it came with the tank) or can i add another filter pump that i have? (an Interpet PF mini?) the PF has an activated charcoal filter inside it as well as sponge. If i can add it then where do i position it in the tank? the bioflow is in the back right of the tank. I'm in the process of my first cycle too!! So far so good. Cheers!!


Okiimiru
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

by Okiimiru

The way to know if your filter is adequate is to test for ammonia after 40 days. If there is still a nonzero ammonia concentration at that time then that means that the number of 'homes' available for beneficial bacteria is not numerous enough to house a large enough population of beneficial bacteria to immediately convert the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. Increasing the surface area available for the bacteria to colonize would solve the problem, either by adding another sponge to the filter or by upgrading to a fluidized bed filter.

There is no reason not to add your second filter since you've already bought it and got it sitting around. Too much filtration doesn't hurt anything (just make sure there is a mesh covering so that your fish can't get sucked up the water intake tube and that there are regions of low current in the tank for it to rest in). You asked where to place the second filter; that's totally up to you. Most people put them out of the way on the back wall of the aquarium.

More information:
Concentrations of ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate on different days after initial setup of the tank can be found on slide 8 of this presentation: http://www.ag.auburn.edu/~davisda/class ... Design.pdf
Fishless cycling: http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_5 ... rticle.htm
Fluidized beds: http://www.bioconlabs.com/abtqs.html
Plants are good filters too: http://theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_B ... Filtration

Are you very attached to your goldfish or would it be possible to substitute it for a golden colored platy (Xiphophorus maculatus)? Goldfish don't do well long term in small tanks. Their life span is 40 years ish but you never hear of them making it that long unless they've got a lot of space. That's why a fish like a platy would be a better choice; unlike the foot long goldfish, a platy's maximum length is only a few inches and it is able to grow to its full grown size in even your 12 gallon tank. If you don't want them to breed then just get all males.


retroangel65
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:45 pm

by retroangel65

Thanks for your reply Okiimiru. I have done too much research in the last week on the internet as i'm now getting conflicting advice and info. I thought my Fancy goldfish would grow to 4-6" not 12 "? The platys look lovely but what would i do with my fancy? Are platys warm water fish? Not sure if the pet shop would take it back. I'm not saying your incorrect at all, its just all the different websites tell you different things. I'm confused and overloaded with info!!!!I'm not sleeping to be honest as i'm a responsible person but i had no idea keeping a goldfish would be so complicated! For instance feed 1 or 2 times a day? Different answers depending on website. Water changes? too many answers for me to decide what is right! How much to feed my goldfish, two minutes worth or five, a big difference??Roughly how many flakes might be simpler??Thanks to anyone who is willing to simplify for me. How to set up and keep a cold water fish? cheers!!!X


Okiimiru
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

by Okiimiru

"I thought my Fancy goldfish would grow to 4-6" not 12 "?"
The maximum size for goldfish really depends on where they live. The single tail and fantail goldfish in my Dad's pond were pretty large after a few years. Goldfish often don't reach their full length in the home aquarium because they emit a hormone that stunts their growth. That hormone is much more dilute in a pond than it ever would be in a tank, so the goldfish grow larger. I'm no goldfish expert (it's my least favorite fish) but I'm not the only one who will advise you not to put one in 12 gallon tank. I feel like that advice would have come from other people too, not just me.

The pet store might take it back, or you could sell the fish. You could for example ship it to someone on aquabid.com or sell it at a local fish club meeting. I find that posting a "free fish" ad on craigslist.org makes the fish go away pretty fast. Just whatever you do don't release the fish into your local waters; pathogens on the fish might not show symptoms but still be present, and the goldfish would contaminate the local water.

"For instance feed 1 or 2 times a day?"
Goldfish don't have true compartmentalized stomachs. Because of that, they aren't able to store and digest food like we are. They're really more of grazers, and they like to eat basically continuously. Here is an anatomy webpage with a goldfish cut open if you want to see for yourself: Warning: graphic http://thegab.org/Goldfish/goldfish-int ... atomy.html
This brings me back to why goldfish are my least favorite fish. They don't have real stomachs, so they eat continuously, so they poop continuously, so they produce more waste than other fish. The amount of filtering you need to do for your aquarium is based basically on how much your feed your fish and how much they poop. So if you had one goldfish in a 12 gallon tank or one betta in a 12 gallon tank and you fed both fish only what they could eat, the goldfish would need much much much more filtering and much more frequent water changes. In fact one betta in a planted 10 gallon tank might not <i>ever</i> need a water change if the plant is eating the fish waste as quickly as the fish is producing it. Platies are in between. They eat a little bit more than a betta but a lot less than goldfish. There are definitely setups where you can have platies with no required water changes. If you're interested in that you might want to read Diana Walstad's book "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium". Your local library might have a copy, and I think the e-book is only $10 ish.

"Different answers depending on website. Water changes? too many answers for me to decide what is right!!!"
Do a water change any time ammonia or nitrite is above 0 ppm (this means your tank is uncycled and the fish are suffering). Also do a water change any time the nitrate is above 30 or 40 ppm. Nitrate sensitivity varies by species, but 30 ppm is a good general rule of thumb. How often you need to change your water depends on the rate of nitrate generation. Fish that generate lots of nitrate might need weekly 25% water changes to keep the nitrate below 30 ppm. A planted tank with plants that eat the nitrogen might only get nitrate at 30 ppm once a month. My own tank is very heavily planted and only lightly stocked, and the nitrate never rises above 20 ppm no matter how long it's been since the last water change. That's the idea behind the Walstad tank (again, more information available in "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad).
Last edited by Okiimiru on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.


retroangel65
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:45 pm

by retroangel65

Its kind of you to help me. I will consider changing my fancy goldfish. I would need a heater for a platy? The same filter i have or another type? Thanks again.


natalie265
Site Admin
 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:48 pm

by natalie265

I agree that a 12 gallon is too small for a gold fish.

I also agree on okiimiru's advice on when to do a water change. Personally, i like to err on the side of doing too many changes, rather than not enough. I change my water BEFORE my nitrates go up to unacceptable levels. For me, that means doing about a 30% water change every other week on most of my tanks.

Yes, platies would need a heater. Whatever type of filtration you are using with your goldfish should be fine with a platy.


Okiimiru
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

by Okiimiru

"Yes, platies would need a heater."
This is the by-the-book correct answer. Technically, yes, platies are suggested to be kept with a heater. Natalie265 is a kind and knowledgable person, and I'm not knocking her answer. Platies do just fine with a heater.

They come from Central and North America (here is a distribution map: http://www.viviparos.com/Fichas/X%20maculatus%20eng.htm ). Here is the weather forecast for Villahermosa, Mexico, a city roundabouts the middle of the platy distribution map: http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/MXTO0152
You can see that the low temperature never really drops to freezing, and often stays around 70 F. Well, my house stays around 70 F, too. So as long as you're not keeping your Xiphophorus maculatus out in your garage or outside or something, I figure they're perfectly fine without an expensive heater. I bred mine without a heater. They live longer at 70 F than they do at 80 F, but it takes them longer to gestate a batch of babies. So if your goal is a transgenerational breeding project, you might want to keep 'em warmer to make the time between generations shorter. I am currently keeping my F1 guppies at 83 F because I won't see the phenotype I want until the F2 babies are born. It takes them almost half as much time to gestate at 80+ F as it does at 70 F.

So, anyway, you didn't hear it from me, but platies are one fish that you do not need a heater for. Just keep 'em above 65 F (if your house is that cold then you're probably cold too) and at the colder temperature each individual will live longer. At 85 F they tend to burn through their life faster.

Edit: Oh, lol, I didn't even need to use the second hyperlink. The very first link has a suggested temperature range from 65 to 77 F based upon the average monthly water temperature for bodies of water in the platies' wild range.
For reference, my unheated 55 gallon tank is currently sitting at 70 F just from ambient room temperature.


Alasse
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 5:35 am
Location: QLD Australia

by Alasse

Platys are tropical so temperatures above 20C are what they need. I require a heater in cooler months or i end up with sick or dead platys, and thats a fact *L*

If your temps are likely to go under that you will definately need a heater, and honestly they arent expensive at all. Far better to have one and set it low than find dead fish IMHO

Can i run two filters in my 12 gallon tank??

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