Ammonia Poisoning

by **Alasse** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:26 pm

All my tanks, bar the Apple snails, are fully filled to capacity with just cm of air space, always been like that.

I have no need to do an oxygen test yasher, my fish arent gasping, and healthy colourful and breeding :)

by **theFISHsaysMOO** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:07 am

I have to agree with Alasse here, i allways keep my water level to the top of the tank and my fish have never had an oxygen issue. I have read the ammonia poisoining causes fish to pump their gills since they are experiencing a burning sensation.... And in my 60 gal i have kept the water level to the top everytime and the fish never showed any signs of lack of oxygen, only when i have added new water to the tank does it happen.

Yasher I saw that you mentioned airate-ing the water? I have never heard of that, what does that mean?

by **yasherkoach** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:05 am

FISHsays, on the surface of the water in the tank, dissolved gases are released into the air and exchanged for oxygen. The greater the surface area, the greater the amount of oxygen taken in also an air pump connected to a bubbler in the tank - an airstone or one of those little bubbling divers - provides air from the bubbles as they burst in the tank. These are all methods of mechanical aeration. Aeration also occurs when live plants release oxygen as they grow. The movement of the water caused by the filter will usually provide enough oxygenated water without an airstone.

Hope this explains aeration

the reason I do not need any filtration in my tank is for this very reason - there is no overhead lighting, no hoods and/or canopies of any sort, it is completely open, therefore the gas mix equates to plentiful oxygen.

As long as there is some space, the greater the better, between the water surface and the lighting/hood, then any kind of "bubbling" at the water surface will produce oxygen - possibly this is the case with Alasse, though as I stated earlier, live plants could also provide plenty oxygen, the more live plants the better.

All fish need oxygen - I hope we all understand this - it all depends on how they get it.

As for the ammonia, FISHsays, have you performed an ammonia liquid test yet? You are only assuming the reason the fish are gasping at the water surface is for ammonia poisoning. But without a test you do not know.

These are the signs of ammonia poisoning:
Fish gasp for breath at the water surface
Purple or red gills
Fish is lethargic
Fins are torn & jagged
Loss of appetite
Fish lays at the bottom of the tank
Fish may appear darker in color
Red streaking on the fins or body

Ammonia poisoning can happen suddenly, or over a period of days. Initially the fish may be seen gasping at the surface for air. The gills will begin to turn red or lilac in color, and may appear to be bleeding. The fish will being to lose its appetite and become increasingly lethargic. In some cases fish may be observed laying at the bottom of the tank with clamped fins. As the damage from the ammonia poisoning continues, the tissues will be damaged as evidenced by red streaks or bloody patches that appear on the body and fins. Internal damage is occurring to the brain, organs, and central nervous system. The fish begins to hemorrhage internally and externally, and eventually dies. Anytime a fish appears to be ill, test for ammonia to rule out ammonia poisoning.

So just because your fish may be gasping at the water surface, the fish must have a few more symptoms before you can say it is because of ammonia poisoning.

So once again, get an ammonia liquid test and I am still not ruling out depletion of oxygen, therefore, you should get a liquid test kit for oxygen.

Let us know how it goes

by **yasherkoach** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:21 am

FISHsays, I reread your original post above, and forget about all those chemicals you are using - go out and purchase a bottle of Prime (you can even double the dose) and I promise all your troubles will be over.

On each water change, put the Prime either in the water before it goes into the tank (best bet) or you can add Prime directly into the tank, either way, Prime will be the most effective way to rid your tank of ANY ammonia (you will see, I promise, that if you do an ammonia test before the water change and it shows some ppm(s) of ammonia and then add Prime, ammonia will be down to 0.

Also it would be best to test the tap water for ammonia, that way you will know if you should double the dose of Prime. Prime is the ONLY chemical that should ever be added to the tank.

When I read your post before I was too caught up in the gasping aspect and didn't realize you were having trouble with your tap water itself. Again, I cannot stress enough, no matter what you think or no matter what anyone tells you, if you apply Prime as directed, I promise your readings of ammonia will an absolute zero.

Also because your tap water may be the culprit - you really need to test this tap water for all chemicals: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, oxygen, phosphate and/or ph - it would be best if you change the water in your tank twice a week, say 10 gallon on Wednesday and another 10 gallons on Saturday always adding the Prime.

Please please go out right now and buy the Prime. If you do not, you will wind up, possibly (probably) with more fish deaths.

Let us know how it goes

by **Alasse** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:26 am

Yasher, even my unplanted tanks are filled to within cm of the lids, no bubbler no surface agitation.

I do not believe oxygen is the original posters problem.

I really need to see some tank tests results, and more tank info to be able to really help though, without all the information all of us are guessing

by **yasherkoach** » Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:16 pm

this is true, we will not know for sure until he tests his tap water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph and/or oxygen...but at least test it for ammonia.

well there must be some form of circulation at the water surface that provides oxygen in the tank, it's just how things work...possibly whatever filter that is in your tank Alasse is providing some agitation. But then again, you always seem to surprise me - possibly your fish have no need for oxygen (((smiles)))

by **Alasse** » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:01 am

The surface of the water moves, it is impossible for it not to if you have filters. My filters are internal or canisters, so the surface sligthly swirls, definalely NO agitation though, i'm not really a fan of it. And in my planted tanks it is something i defiantely do not want to encourage. I need the CO2 produced to stay in the tank for the plants to use, adding a bubbler or agitating the surface would defeat this purpose and gas it all out and replace with it oxygen

by **theFISHsaysMOO** » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:41 pm

First off i wanted to say i completely drained my 60 gallon (tank 3) and its been refilled and the 4 cichlids were moved into a smaller 30 gallon (tank 2) and i still have my old tank that’s been up for a long time (tank 1)..... Sooo i finally got a water test kit and here are some readings: ANY Advice is much appreciated, i am worried about tank #2 but i understand that the tank must be cycling right and on the plus side the fish are showing no illness

Tank #1 (has been running for years):

6.0 pH
.25 ppm Ammonia
.25 ppm Nitrite
160 ppm Nitrate

Tank #2 (has been set up and fishless for over a month, 4 young cichlids have only recently been added two weeks ago)

6.8 pH
3 ppm Ammonia
5 ppm Nitrite
120 ppm Nitrate

Tank #3 (has been refilled and fishless for about a week now)

7.8 pH
.5 ppm Ammonia
0.0 Nitrite
i forgot to measure Nitrate

by **yasherkoach** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:57 am

Tank #1: 6.0 is low but depending on the fish you are probably okay...the nitrate level is toxic, I am sure your fish are stressed

Tank #2: 6.8 ph is not too bad...but the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all toxic levels

Tank #3: appears to be okay, no complaints unless the nitrate is over 80 (over 80 is toxic)

So tank number 3 wins the prize

Tank #2 you should be very concerned about...I am sure Alasse and others will help you as well

Thanks for the results...look forward to your response

by **Alasse** » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:35 am

Can i ask if you ajust your PH. Just you have 3 tanks with different values.

Tank 1 - This tank is not stable. It has a problem if it has been running for years and is registering ammonia. To me this adds upto not enough water changes.

Tank 2 - Fishless means nothing. Adding the fish is now putting the tank into the cycle process. The tank is definately nowhere near stable and you will have to be very careful to get your fish through this with readings that high.

Tank 3 - Where is the ammonia coming from if the tank is fishless?? This tank is also not cycled and could be dangerous to fish once they are added.

Leaving a tank fishless for any amount of time is useless. You either need to cycle with fish or feed the tank to get the beneficial bacteria at adequate levels to keep the tank stable.

All 3 tanks in my opinion are not properly cycled and are struggling. You will have your work cut out with the tanks with fish currently in them. You need to do frequent small water changes (daily) to keep the levels low enough that your fish dont suffer. The tank without fish has not got anywhere near cycling, as i stated above either fish in (limited stock) or using another source

Ammonia Poisoning

30 posts • Page 2 of 3

Ammonia Poisoning

30 posts • Page 2 of 3