Problems with getting it rite! Cichlid tank...

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JazzyD_KingRoy
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:47 pm

Problems with getting it rite! Cichlid tank...

by JazzyD_KingRoy

It all started a few years ago when i had a tank of mostly South Amercian cichlids. I never really took good care of the tank, (rocks from home depot, cheap hang over filter that i got from walmart, ext.) anyways, the tank did very well for years, i even fed them fish out of the canal by my house. Then 1 day 1 of my fish got sick, and b4 i knew it, most of my fish had died and i gave up on fish for a while.

This year, i was given a nice new/used tank and decided 2 start fresh with a African Cichlid tank. I love everything about these fish, and i love to sit and watch my tank(Like TV).
So,I went out and got a EHEIM canister filter, i got speical cichlid sand, and rocks that are susposto keep my ph above 8.0, I got driftwood and plants, the works.... I started up my tank with only sand, rocks, wood, and plants. I let it run for about 2 weeks b4 adding my first few cichlids. When i got the first 5, they did fine.So i went and got 7 more about a week later. About a day later, I lost 2 of the first 5, but everything else was good.

Then about 3 weeks later 1 got 2 fish from a questionable mom & pops store and added them. Well everything seemed 2 be going fine for about a week, then 1 of the new fish started showing signs of infection. I started 2 treat my tank with Melafix, then added Pimafix to the mix a few days later. All together i lost 9 fish and I have been trying so hard 2 just have a healthy tank. I been doing 25% water changes every 4-5 days since the diease started(2 weeks ago), and i think that the 5 cichlids i have left are good now.?
How long should i wait b4 adding more fish, and how do i avoid having more problems?
I am constnaly staring at my fish and checking them out, this has been a nightmare!
Please help.


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

OK, first off you did not let the tank cycle long enough before adding that many fish. Don't add anymore for a good month or more so you can be sure its stable in there. My guess would be with each new group of fish you had an ammonia spike because the filters do not have enough beneficial bacteria to handle the new load. Plus the fish were stressed and susceptible to illness. Try adding aquarium salt to the water with each water change. It helps their slime coat and helps them heal faster. I always add it because there is always one or 2 fish with nips in their fins from the everyday activity. Keep up your water changes until you notice that your levels are stable. Make sure the pH stays stable too, a swing in that will stress the fish.

Notice any ripped fins on the ones that died? The reason I ask is because you have a couple of the most nasty aggressive Africans there are! Your Bumblebee and the one you call a Blue Zebra, which is actually a Kenyi. These two will decimate your tank. Your giraffe cichlid is a Nimbochromis venustus, they are also very aggressive and will grow to be over 10". It is also a Hap and should not be in with Mbuna. The Jewel, I think is a South American, so really should not be with them, its probably too mild mannered to handle Mbuna, plus needs a lower pH and softer water.

My suggestion to you if you want a cool tank with no deaths is to return the Kenyi, Bumblebee, Jewel and venustus. Your pretty Peacock should be OK, but watch it cuz Mbuna get pretty crazy sometimes! Try to build up a couple groups of 1 male to 3-4 females. For instance, get a couple more Pseudotropheus Socolofi (thats the one you have labeled as a electric blue) so that you have a male and a few females, get some more Yellow Labs, and maybe a third group like Acei. That way you can watch the dynamics of each group as the males show off to the females and even have fry. If you are not looking to breed, just let the females spit the fry in the main tank.

Look into which fish you want and try to match the aggression levels of the kinds you want. If you keep the Electric Yellow Labs and Socolofi, these are Mbuna, so stick with Mbuna. They are the funnest fish anyways and the biggest most get are 5".

This is a wonderful profile site. Look thru it, pick the kinds you like that are similar in aggression and you will have a busy, crazy and fun tank!
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... .php?cat=2

Mine has been up and running for 10 months now. I started with 3 Electric Yellows, got a couple Kenyi, took them back when they started beating up my Yellows and got 3 Acei. Then added a group of 4 Red Zebras. Moved everyone into a 55 gallon and now my final list is a group of Yellow Labs, a group of Red Zebras, a group of Acei and a group of Ice Blues (Metriaclima greshakei). I have 2 odd males, a Hongi and a Demasoni and tons of fry in fry tanks and the main tank. It took a lot of returning fish and mistakes to get the right combo, but now I always have a holding female and everyone gets along. The tank is better than TV! Good thing I have a pause button on live TV LOL.


JazzyD_KingRoy
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:47 pm

by JazzyD_KingRoy

Wow, thanks for all of your advice!
Let me update you, and ask you a few questions if you dont mind...
My bumblebee, electric blue, sunshine peacock, and red jewel are all dead!
The only ones that are left are my Giraffe, yellow lab, and 2 diffrent zebras of some kind,(one you said was a kenyi) one is light and one is black & blue.
Im so sad about my Peacock and my bumblebee, i really liked them.
On the other hand, with Mbuna, i like the idea of them staying smaller than haps.
But can they live together? What would happen?
Oh and, I never used salt because i was told that it will kill my live plants. True?
and if so, is there another way to get the same benifits? I use primer with changes, is that ok?
Also, my fish are small, about 1" at most, so does the amonia issue still apply when adding fish?
Gotta run, i'll cont' later 2night.
Thanks again.


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

OK, the "Giraffe" will get too big for your tank. It should be fine in the mean time, but eventually you will need a bigger tank or re-home it. Your Kenyi will start to terrorize the tank as it grows bigger, so best to re-home it now.

My best advice is, don't buy any fish on impulse. If you see some at the store, write the name down, go home and research it. Make sure its a Mbuna and that the aggression level is the same as other fish in your tank. Example: Yellow Labs are mildly aggressive, Kenyi highly aggressive, not a good mix at all and the Labs will suffer.

So, go here and look up the fish. If it matches the aggression level of your other fish (I would stick with the mild ones until you know what you are doing) go ahead and get a few, 1 male and a couple females, 2 females at the very least.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/c ... .php?cat=2

Your plants are not going to last long. Africans eat plants. They are strict herbivores, so no meaty foods (like blood worms, etc) or they will get bloat. There are very few plants that are tough enough for Mbunas. I put a nice big Amazon sword in with mine and in a couple days it was full of holes. Also, your water needs to have a higher pH. They need 7.8-9.0 to thrive. You can get a jar of Rift Lake Buffer to help with raising the pH. I add it in when I do a water change along with my declor.

Even the smallest of fish will cause some form of ammonia issues. How long have you had the tank running? Is your ammonia at 0? The best way of adding Mbuna is to add a group of the least aggressive first then add the more aggressive later. That way the lesser ones can establish some territory. Yellow Labs are good to start with.

Here is a profile of a Kenyi: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... php?id=798

Your Girraffe: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1160
This fish is a carnivore and may eat your other fish when big. Plus, the Mbuna are strict veggie eater and if you feed him meat they will eat it and get bloat, which kills fast.

Look thru the profiles to figure out what the other one is. If the aggression level is not high you could build up a group of that too.

Hope that helps. Its confusing when first setting up an African tank and I had lots of help, thanks to a guy on this forum who also lives up the road from me :-)


JazzyD_KingRoy
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:47 pm

by JazzyD_KingRoy

Damn, im learning alot! This cichlid stuff is serious....but fun.
Ok, Well i guess i been lucky with the plants, they seem 2 be holidng up well and i hate 2 kill them with salt, but i will try a little on this waterchange. My PH has been good, at around 8-8.2. I use a powder to matain it, and i have a water test kit at home that i use. My ammonia i assume is 0, but i havent tested. Because with the filter i have and the primer i use, it is supossto remove it.
My tank has been running altogether for about 3 months.

Now about the fish... i guess i will take back the Girraffe when it gets a little bigger, and see how it goes with the Kenyi for now because im not sure about him. Some of the diffrent fish look alike, and he looks like a Black Eastern too . How can i tell? I like the aggressive ones too after going through the list, but i think your advice is good. Im gonna get mostly the lesser aggressive first. Its just hard to tell whats what. ya know?
How do you tell the diffrence between the males and females? And the Haps & Mbuna when you are at the store? Im confused.lol
Well, im about to do a water change now, so i'll write again later.
Oh yea, where do u live? Im in south Fla.
Thanks again.
JazyD


dizzcat
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am

by dizzcat

You really don't need the salt. I just add it to my African tank to help heal them as they are mature now and constantly getting into miner scuffles. Causing nipped fins all the time. If the plants are strong enough they can make it. They say Anubis is, and your grass type plants. Mine munched my amazon within a day! What kinds do you have?

Your pH is real good for them. Get yourself an ammonia test kit, because you cannot totally rely on Prime and a filter to remove it all. Its water changes that do. Check it daily as you add new fish. If it spikes do a small water change (larger if a big spike) It needs to be at 0, anything else will burn their gills. Add small groups at a time. Wait a couple weeks until there is no spikes then add a few more. But test daily until it reads 0 consistently.

There are a LOT of Mbuna that look alike! When I am not completely sure that what I bought is what it says it is I will go to that profile site and look. What is nice about that site is that it shows many shots of the same species instead of one generic shot. Most pics on websites or books are of a male in full courting colors. When a male does not have a female around it mostly stays in mellow mode. I have a Metriaclima greshakei aka Ice Blue, who stayed a medium blue color with faint bars. I was unsure he really was one, but he matched a couple pics on that profile. When I bought him a couple females and put them in the tank - Bamm! There he was, in all his ice blue splendor! A beautiful ice blue color with a great face mask! That was the first time I saw him do that! Worked too, I had a holding female the next day LOL.

If your fish is a Kenyi male he will either turn yellow or should be yellow depending on his size. The females stay the blue, the males turn yellow.

Even tho a profile says mildly aggressive, you will have an aggressive tank. They are not like community fish who mind their own business. They will chase each other, posture, vibrate, etc. They are mild compared to other Mbunas! This is a mistake people make, they see mildly aggressive and put one in their community tank, only to have it kill off their other fish!

The difference between male and female? Depends on the fish. With some, like an Ice Blue its obvious, the male is blue, females are brown/copper. Kenyi, males are yellow, females blue. Sometimes these color changes do not happen until they are over 2" tho. With Acei, almost impossible to tell until they get big! Yellow Labs, the male will have a darker black in the underside fins. Females will have it too, but not as intense. I have a 2" one I kept from a past spawn and now know its a male. My dominant male does not vibrate at it the way he does the females and this little guy is getting very dark fins now. Red Zebras, as the male matures they develop a blue sheen to their fins. It took me a year to finally get a male Acei! I had 3 and they all turned out females! I was sure by behavior that one was a male. It vibrated to the others, defended its space and just acted male. Then one day I found her with a mouthful of eggs! Since then all have held eggs. turns out they were spawning with each other so the eggs were infertile. I picked up a "male" last weekend and now 2 are holding again. If they hold past 3 days I will know for sure its a male because the eggs will be fertile.. I went by the fact that most males will have more blue/purple in their dorsal fin than yellow, and this ones anal fin is a powder blue instead of purple/yellow the way the others are. His fins are also more pointy. But, he is almost 5". I have another one I got a month ago that is 2" and I don't know what it is LOL. Don't go by egg spots on the anal fins either. Most fish store workers will tell you that is how you tell, but of all my females only one does not have any. One female Red Zebra has just as many as the male! I was worried it was male until she held.

The only true way of telling is to vent them. Venting is looking at their undersides. When looking at their holes, a female will look like this -> oO and a male will look like this oo. I have yet to really get the hang of it. Here's a good article about venting:
http://www.malawimayhem.com/articles_venting.shtml

The difference between Haps, Peacocks and Mbuna, well after you look at a lot of pics you can just tell. Peacocks will have a more pointy face and longer fins. Not so sure on haps as I have seen more peacocks. . Mbuna have a compact body, their fins are not as long and flowing and most of the time their faces are more rounded. My best advise is go to that profile site and look at pics. You will get the hang of telling them apart after awhile. The largest Mbuna is 7" (I am fairly sure) and peacocks and haps get a lot bigger.

I live in Colorado. Been here almost my entire life. I am a single mom with two adult kids. I started a small tank as a hobby and it turned into my obsession! I raise fry and trade them for store credit. Did a LOT of reading when first starting. Then decided on an African tank and did even MORE reading LOL. I found help from a guy on this forum who also lives here. He really helped me get started and do it right. :-)


JazzyD_KingRoy
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:47 pm

by JazzyD_KingRoy

Hey, sorry its been a while sine i wrote u back, but im a mom 2 with 2 small baby girls ages 7 & 1 1/2. Plus i work full time, so when i do get home and im done with the mommy duties... i just wanna chill and watch my fishtank. Ya know.

I tried the salt thing with this last waterchange, but i only used about half the dose. As far as the plants go, im not sure about what kind they are. I just went 2 the store that i shop at (big al's) and started speaking to people about plants because i origally wanted a planted african tank, but then setteled for just a african tank with some plants. (Plants are alot of work and money if u really get into it like i wanted 2.) So i came up with this idea to get a big piece of driftwood and some plants with soiled roots and big bunchy roots. i soaked the wood for about 2 weeks (changing the waer everyday) i got the wood dry. Then i attached the plants 2 the wood useing sewing string. It worked out great! Then i added a few potted plants and thats it. So far, so good!

Iv been on that cichlid site a bunch of times now, and iv seen quite a few fish that my blue ones can be. I took some better pictures of them & i will post them by the weekend so maby you can help me figure out what they are for sure. I would like 2 build the rest of my fish around them. Thanks for all you advice about the diffrence between males and females and hapes and mbuna.
I still have alot more 2 learn. To bad u dont live down south, cause i need a friend who shares the same obession...lol
My man thinks im crazy over this fish thing.

Talk 2 you later...


josmoloco
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:21 pm

by josmoloco

Your "sunshine peacock" is a male P. salousi that is beguining to color up. Cichlidforum is the way to go. I used to be a regular here until I found them.



http://www.cichlidforum.com/

Problems with getting it rite! Cichlid tank...

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