Hello everybody
I am pleased to report that Michael is no longer Michael but Michaela who has paired up with Gabriel and just spawned on a leaf! I have a 265 litre tank, quite deep. I have four angels, all of which I got as small babies wtihin the last few months. In the last two months or so I gave back the other fish to the pet shop and left only the four angels in the tank. Michaela grew alarmingly rapidly and the others I got after her have taken their time, but Gabriel is now as big as Michaela with the other two growing up behind them. Gabriel and Michaela have taken over the one side of the tank in the last few days and will not allow the smaller two to go to their side. I do understand that they might well eat the eggs but in case they don't (they seem like very protective parents with one always staring at the eggs while the other keeps guard chasing the other fish away), I am trying to decide what to do. I only have this tank and a very small 20 litre tank which is empty at present. It seems my options are as follows:
Give away the other two angels (Uriel and Rapheal) and let the other two have the whole tank - but I don't want to do that.
Take out the leaf with the eggs on it and put them in the small tank, don't want to do that to Michaela on her first batch.
Put a divider between the two lots of fish (ie, between Rapheal/Uriel and Gabriel/Michaela, It would have to be a very big divider as the tank is very deep and also the holes must be very small so the babies can't get through. Can I use something I can buy from the local hardware shop? What do you suggest? I think I should do this.
Wait for the babies to be born then remove them and put them in the smaller tank which by then I will have prepared wtih a proper sponge filter etc. I will use the water from the main tank. Do I really need to remove them? Or perhaps I should just remove some of them and leave the rest for the proud parents?
I would be grateful for some advice. I am very proud of Michaela but I am now gettting scared.
Maria
Angelfish spawning
8 posts
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dizzcat - Posts: 648
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am
I have never had Angels spawn before, but I can tell you how I get Bolivian Ram fry to sell off size.
What I do is put a divider in the tank. I give the parents about 1/4 of the tank. (I stick it in the side they chose to spawn on. They usually do on the right.) You are right, the fry can swim right thru the holes in a divider. So what I do is cover one side of the divider with very fine netting I get at a fabric store. I put the netting side to the fry. They can't get thru it.
If you need a store bought divider to be taller, you could get some plastic canvas and add it to the top to keep the other fish out of that side. A store bought one would be better (get it at the pet store) because you will need to make sure it is very tight against the sides of the tank or the fry will swim right past it. Fry tend to stay very close to the parents, but with Angels I am not sure if they will swim close to the top? Mine stay near the bottom 99% of the time.
After they hatch (let the parents do this part) you can grab some of the fry once they become free swimming with a turkey baster or small hose and move them to the spare tank to grow out some. This is what I will do with my fry in the next day or so. I will leave about half with the parent and raise the other half myself. If you don't have the money to buy a bigger grow out tank you could always grow them in the small tank until they are too big to get past the divider and then finish growing them out in a portion of the big tank.
A divider is a good idea for first timers. Because you can keep the parents in the main tank with their eggs/fry so they can practice. Also charging the other fish thru the divider will help strengthen their bond for next time.
I lost all but one fry from a batch laid in December. It was due to the water movement swishing away the food before the fry could eat very much. This time I am moving them to a small tank with very little water movement until they are big enough to fend for themselves better.
Also, if the filter intake is near where they laid the eggs and will be on the divided side with the parents, you will need to cover the end of the intake with something so the fry don't get sucked in. I use a piece of pantyhose, held on with a small rubber band.
To feed the fry you will need to either hatch baby brine shrimp or buy it frozen. I use the frozen stuff. I just melt a little cube in tank water and then use an eye dropper to squirt some right into the fry swarm. After a couple weeks I change over to finely crushed flake food.
Good luck!!
What I do is put a divider in the tank. I give the parents about 1/4 of the tank. (I stick it in the side they chose to spawn on. They usually do on the right.) You are right, the fry can swim right thru the holes in a divider. So what I do is cover one side of the divider with very fine netting I get at a fabric store. I put the netting side to the fry. They can't get thru it.
If you need a store bought divider to be taller, you could get some plastic canvas and add it to the top to keep the other fish out of that side. A store bought one would be better (get it at the pet store) because you will need to make sure it is very tight against the sides of the tank or the fry will swim right past it. Fry tend to stay very close to the parents, but with Angels I am not sure if they will swim close to the top? Mine stay near the bottom 99% of the time.
After they hatch (let the parents do this part) you can grab some of the fry once they become free swimming with a turkey baster or small hose and move them to the spare tank to grow out some. This is what I will do with my fry in the next day or so. I will leave about half with the parent and raise the other half myself. If you don't have the money to buy a bigger grow out tank you could always grow them in the small tank until they are too big to get past the divider and then finish growing them out in a portion of the big tank.
A divider is a good idea for first timers. Because you can keep the parents in the main tank with their eggs/fry so they can practice. Also charging the other fish thru the divider will help strengthen their bond for next time.
I lost all but one fry from a batch laid in December. It was due to the water movement swishing away the food before the fry could eat very much. This time I am moving them to a small tank with very little water movement until they are big enough to fend for themselves better.
Also, if the filter intake is near where they laid the eggs and will be on the divided side with the parents, you will need to cover the end of the intake with something so the fry don't get sucked in. I use a piece of pantyhose, held on with a small rubber band.
To feed the fry you will need to either hatch baby brine shrimp or buy it frozen. I use the frozen stuff. I just melt a little cube in tank water and then use an eye dropper to squirt some right into the fry swarm. After a couple weeks I change over to finely crushed flake food.
Good luck!!
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dizzcat - Posts: 648
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am
I thought I would add this to show you how I set up my divider. This is my tank today. On one side is the papa Bolivian Ram with his brood of about 100 fry. On the other side is mama patrolling the divider and the other fish. I cannot keep both parents with the fry because they fight as soon as they are done spawning.
The divider is covered with a dark green netting to keep the fry from swimming thru the holes. I like the darker color because its harder to see and blends with the tank better.
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... ivider.jpg
The divider is covered with a dark green netting to keep the fry from swimming thru the holes. I like the darker color because its harder to see and blends with the tank better.
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd35 ... ivider.jpg
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josephine - Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:50 pm
Hi, thanks so much for the advice and picture. The eggs are still fine, with only a few white ones. Luckily the parents seem to be getting on fine and sharing duties well. They are not aggressive towards me when I fiddle around near their leaf which is quite flattering as they are horrible to the other fish. I bought some stiff netting from the hardware store and cut it to size and put it in dividing up the two pairs of fish. You are right though, it is very difficult to get it to fit tightly on the sides. I wll get some finer netting tomorrow for the one side. I was thinking of buying thin plastic binders from a stationery shop to put on the sides of the meshing which may make it sit tighter on the sides. I did phone a few pet shops but (as expected) they don't have dividers or only have very small ones. I have also put meshing over the filter tubes but stocking is a better idea. Whilst measuring my tank again to get the meshing I realised I actually have a 365 litre tank, not 265 litre, which is quite nice because uriel and rapahel have plenty of space for themselves on the one side. I will post some pictures of the babies if all works out. However, it sounds quite complicated and I often have to be out for 15 hours at a time working. So I will do my best and leave the rest to the parents to sort out. Thanks! I could not sleep properly last night wondering if the eggs would still be there in the morning. Pathetic really. I think I am getting obsessive.
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dizzcat - Posts: 648
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:30 am
Not pathetic :-) I do the same thing! I would LOVE to have Angel fry, I bet they are adorable!
The first spawn my Rams had I ran to the tank each morning to see. They have spawned a total of about 8 times now. One spawn I tried to raise, did too, they hatched and all but the next day they were all dead. I tried because all the other spawns except their very first the mama would eat the fry as they hatched. Next time I was surprised by finding mom over a clutch of wigglers. I left them in with her and all but one died because they starved. I guess the current was too strong and washing the food away before they could get enough. Now I have about 50 in a breeders net and I am feeding them. Papa still has about 30 with him. I stopped getting my hopes up so this is neat.
Good luck! I want to see pics!
The first spawn my Rams had I ran to the tank each morning to see. They have spawned a total of about 8 times now. One spawn I tried to raise, did too, they hatched and all but the next day they were all dead. I tried because all the other spawns except their very first the mama would eat the fry as they hatched. Next time I was surprised by finding mom over a clutch of wigglers. I left them in with her and all but one died because they starved. I guess the current was too strong and washing the food away before they could get enough. Now I have about 50 in a breeders net and I am feeding them. Papa still has about 30 with him. I stopped getting my hopes up so this is neat.
Good luck! I want to see pics!
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kelbri - Posts: 118
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:24 pm
This is GREAT news! I realllllly want to spawn my angels. I only have three, and one is quite a bit larger than the other two (the two we bought just 3 weeks ago, and the other one is almost a year old now). We also have only a 29 gallon tank (110 litre), with a sucker, 6 neon tetra's and 2 fire belly gouramis. We are moving soon, and as such, I don't want to get a larger tank and more fish just yet. Once we move though, I want to get a 55 gallon (210 litre) or larger, and set that one up with about 6 to 8 angels. Hopefully then I can get at least one breeding pair.
Did you do anything different to get them to spawn? A water change? Raise or lower tank temp? Or just lucky? I too would love to see some pics. Keep us up to date! Awesome, congrats!
Did you do anything different to get them to spawn? A water change? Raise or lower tank temp? Or just lucky? I too would love to see some pics. Keep us up to date! Awesome, congrats!
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josephine - Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:50 pm
Hello - just logged on again after an absence. Interestingly two weeks before the first spawning I was working alot so out a lot often for 16 hours at a time. During that time I did not pay much attention to the fish. When I knew I was going to be out for many hours I leave the lights a bit dimmer. Also I went away for two days and left the lights off during that time. When I got back I gave the fish a good live feed to make up to them and did a biggish water change (20%). However, after I took the water out I left the tank for a few hours with the lower water level as I had to go and buy some water. I then came back and put the water in. Interestingly as well, during the two weeks I was working and then went away for a few days, the water was also dimmed because of peat extract I had put in and some peat slabs for plants I had in under the gravel. When I came back I removed the peat slabs and of course put the new clear water in. Perhaps this allmotivated the fish to spawn, as they thought summer had arrived.
Well, Gabriel did not perform properly on his first attempt because it seems that none of the eggs were fertilised as they all went white after two days and then they ate them. Exactly two weeks later (yesterday), my darling efficient Michaela spawned again quite beautifully on the same leaf. I don't know if Gabriel has caught on to the correct procedure yet but they are very cute again gaurding the eggs together. I think I will wait and see what happens for a few attempts and then perhaps take the eggs out if they are not successful.
One other thing I noticed was that before my two week working stint Gabriel was being nasty to Michaela and this upset me and I was thinking of taking him out. I did not pay much attention to the fish for those two weeks and then I realised that they had paired. I did read that the male will challenge a female first and then choose the one he percieves to be strong. So probably that was what happened. Also, I read that if the angels spawn the eggs close together on a leaf rather than distributed all over the leaf, they probably make a good couple.
I think plenty of space is good. The angels have chosen to spawn on a leaf under the turtle log indicating they feel more comfortable spawning where the light is not too bright. Also angels do not like excessive circulation in a tank, although the eggs do need some circulation around them after spawning. Angels also are motivated to spawn by the presence of other fish in the tank or even in the tank next to them as it brings out their parenting instincts.
I hope it all works out well for you.
Well, Gabriel did not perform properly on his first attempt because it seems that none of the eggs were fertilised as they all went white after two days and then they ate them. Exactly two weeks later (yesterday), my darling efficient Michaela spawned again quite beautifully on the same leaf. I don't know if Gabriel has caught on to the correct procedure yet but they are very cute again gaurding the eggs together. I think I will wait and see what happens for a few attempts and then perhaps take the eggs out if they are not successful.
One other thing I noticed was that before my two week working stint Gabriel was being nasty to Michaela and this upset me and I was thinking of taking him out. I did not pay much attention to the fish for those two weeks and then I realised that they had paired. I did read that the male will challenge a female first and then choose the one he percieves to be strong. So probably that was what happened. Also, I read that if the angels spawn the eggs close together on a leaf rather than distributed all over the leaf, they probably make a good couple.
I think plenty of space is good. The angels have chosen to spawn on a leaf under the turtle log indicating they feel more comfortable spawning where the light is not too bright. Also angels do not like excessive circulation in a tank, although the eggs do need some circulation around them after spawning. Angels also are motivated to spawn by the presence of other fish in the tank or even in the tank next to them as it brings out their parenting instincts.
I hope it all works out well for you.
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josephine - Posts: 24
- Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:50 pm
Hallo
This is the third time angel Michaela has spawned, 10 days after the last. First two times eggs went white after two days.
Who has succesfully bred angel fish in their community aquarium?
Kindly part with the secrets, don't be mean, be kind.
Maria
This is the third time angel Michaela has spawned, 10 days after the last. First two times eggs went white after two days.
Who has succesfully bred angel fish in their community aquarium?
Kindly part with the secrets, don't be mean, be kind.
Maria