2 odd things

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Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


Poetic_Irony2267
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:42 pm

2 odd things

by Poetic_Irony2267

just wanted to put this up and get your thoughts, something has been happening in my tank that has me worried, one my discus have been acting somewhat aggressively towards each other, just wondering as i am new to discus if this is a normal thing?

the next thing is i have an angel fish acting odd, swimming near top of tank and or hiding way back in the plants, he is not acting normal at all, none of my other fish have any symptoms of illness, and the other thing i notices is at the base of the pectoral fins they are a bit swollen and reddish in color, have tried to find this disease or what this constitutes but nothing is coming up that's worth anything?
thanks in advance.
Brandon


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

What species of discus is the aggressive guy. They are as a general rule peaceful, but there are some species that can be more aggressive than others (aggressive when compared to other discus).

Also, what are the relative sizes of the discus (i.e. is the bully bigger than the others)? Is anyone mating in the tank? Were they all introduced together? Have there been new additions? All of these things can set a particular discus off and make him start to fight with some of the others. Like I said before, they are generally peaceful - but they have to live up to the cichlid name somehow, right.

I'm not sure about the angel. Is he getting picked on by anyone? Sounds almost like the behavior of my secondary cichlid males (except for the swollen, red part). Spongebob keeps angels so maybe he will know. I have never had them. Good luck.


Poetic_Irony2267
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:42 pm

by Poetic_Irony2267

Thank you for the response Miami i really do appreciate the assistance, the discus that's doing the bullying is mainly the pigeon blood, however the turquoise checkerboard pushes the pigeon blood around sometimes, the one that's super docile is the unknown breed i have on my profile, they are all relatively the same size, the pigeon blood was the first put in the tank the next day was the turquoise checkerboard, and about a week and a half ago i got the third, there is a pic on my profile called the three amigos, that pictures all three of them together, i am wondering if one of them is a female and the other two are showing aggressive behaviors because of the whole macho thing, i am planning on buying another three this coming week and maybe another four the next paycheck, but we will see how my wallet holds up. i figure if i have a large school of them the aggression would be calmed down. the size of the fish are around four inches, i've been watching also to make sure that the one really docile one is not showing any signs of injury and or illness as i am afraid that the pressure is going to stress it out. as for the angel i will wait to see what the spongebob has to say, i am thinking about moving it to the five gallon tank and seeing if quarantining it helps any, i would hate to lose it, beautiful gold koi angel. would be a shame to have it die. all my lvls are correct, if they weren't there would be a massacre in my tank, as most of the fishes i have are super sensitive to big swings in ph and ammonia, ph 6.5 and steady, turned down the co2 for the day to let the system recover some o2 lvls, 10% water change, is my normal day for this on the calendar, added a bubbler to turn on at night so i can replace any o2 lost during the day this i figured will keep the tank stable during the dark hours, so that there isn't a ph swing due to co2 lvls getting high overnight. let me know what you think of this.
lol nothing is broke and am not trying to fix anything, but as with anything i do i am trying to gain perfection in stability. i am thinking about changing the way i have my filtration return, also, i have two pipes with holes that i can hook to my return and suction cup to the back of the inside of the tank and use it like a sprinkler system, this i figure will create more surface disturbance for air gas exchange. ok sorry for the book. i will end my incessant babbling.
Thanks for the help,
Brandon


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

Well, it is probably one of two things. First, it could be what you said and it could be two males ganging up on a female (which might explain why you see the males fight some time too). Second, it could be that the first two established territories and when you introduced the third one, it set the first two off. Either way, it is good in the future to put several new guys in at a time and I would definitely get some more in there to spread the aggression around to. Discus are not generall aggressive to other non-discus, but they can beat up on other discus. I don't suppose there is any way to break up the territories as you have a planted tank. I know with my Africans, I rearrange all the rock before I add any new species so all territories are gone and every has an equal chance at them. This helps immensly, but like I said, not much use to you with a planted tank. I guess I would try to get some new ones in there as soon as possible and see if the aggression drops.

Are you having any problems with the angels and the discus together? I have never kept them together so I have no personal experience, but I have read that the angels can beat up on the discus pretty bad during feeding and especially during mating. I do mostly hear that the setup will work as long as the angels are smaller than the discus. I was just interested in your experience as I like to hear what others find.

I have seen some people with the whole sprinkler setup. It looks like it works very nicely. It should work great for you.

I am not a planted tank expert so I can't really answer about your setup to keep the pH stable. But as long as you are keeping the CO2 concentration pretty stable between the night and the day, you should be good to go.


Poetic_Irony2267
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:42 pm

by Poetic_Irony2267

thanks again for the rapid response, the angel didn't make it, started acting weird this morning and an hour ago as i was setting up the sprinkler i noticed it missing found it at the base of an anubias nana, i quickly removed it and examined it, doesn't appear to be anything major wrong externally except the red on the base of the pectorals the other angel i have is much smaller than the discus and feeds right along with them just fine, he actually schools with them most of the time and doesn't seem to be aggressive towards them at all, although i noticed it was aggressive towards the gold koi angel... sooooo we will see what happens now, the rest of the tank is doing wonderful and just got a call from the lfs well not the lfs for me but a place i shop often, he has a shipment of discus coming in tomorrow and will have them ready for me tues after he watches them to make sure they are in good health, he is putting them on my tab..... woooooot another three hundred gone in a flash.......


spongebob4460
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:37 am

by spongebob4460

Sorry for your loss and to chime in so late... my only thoughts on your angel are this:

Red fin tips could be from scraping against something... i know that my angels are peaceful swimmers unless provoked, then they dart back and forth faster than my eye can catch... its actually quite amazing how fast they dart around, you never would be able to tell from their slow pace (maybe you've seen this behaviour from your own). I have had previous issues (which I posted on) when it came time for feeding between my angels and my sharks, which led me to remove the sharks. My angels become quite aggressive during feeding if they feel threatened, and even now will dart at some rasboras if they feel the need. Maybe your other angel or some discus bullied the angel, and caused it to flee into something, and it stressed the poor guy out day in day out, but I think you would have noticed something like that as i'm sure you're an attentive owner. Umm, if your angels are male and female, they could have had a lovers quarel (this is common with angels), if you noticed them always hang out, then one day they became aggressive to each other, the one angel might have bullied the other to death... which might explain his tendency to flock with the discus (was this always typical behaviour for that angel, or recent?). Thats about as much as I can offer in terms of my experience or insight brandon. I'm still learning.


Peterkarig3210
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am

by Peterkarig3210

I agree with getting more diskus. when I had 3 there was usually one who got picked on the most.

Do you have enough salinity in the water? I know you have plants that won't like salt, but an abnormally low amount of salt could be causing problems with the slime coat (I'm thinking of the angel). You are using R/O water right? Maybe you need more trace elements.

I heard that there is an additive you can mix with R/O water called R/O Right I think, and it makes straight R/O water safe for fish.


spongebob4460
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:37 am

by spongebob4460

Brandon i did some research and it could also be a few other things. For one, it might be a fungul infection... the red fins... caused by stress due to ph swings. Did you used to keep the angel in higher ph's and now you have lower ph's for the discus?

Also, it could be from strong lighting i was reading... some fish dont react well to certain lights and this stresses them and makes them vulnerable to disease.

Lastly, red fin could start from high nitrate levels wish bring about a certain infection of the fins, and i woulnd't assume this is your case, but I know you switched to planted tank, could this be an issue for you?

Hope any of these help


Poetic_Irony2267
 
Posts: 297
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:42 pm

by Poetic_Irony2267

nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, and ph all fine, i am thinking it may have something to do with the amount of high powered lighting i am using coupled with the higher temp in the tank for the discus, the one tangel i have left doing great, i just think that the bullying and the added stress may have caused this angel to get an infection where the pectorals connected to the body and this may have lead to a gill infection, i did some reading this morning and angels don't like temps above 82-83 degrees, my tank stays at a solid 86 i think if gradually drop the temp down a few degrees and change the lighting cycle a little bit this may actually cure the problem the discus i have were tank raised and kept at a temp of 88 degrees, but because i have other fish that are use to higher temps around 84-86 degrees i keep it at the higher end for max discus health, this may actually be the cold hard truth of it all, i think if i drop the temp just a little and do it slowly enough the discus will adapt to the cooler temp as well as maximize the health of my other fish, am going to have to do it over a 24 hour period of time, a half degree every few hours. am going to have to monitor my ph and nitrates over the next few days as temp change can cause a major issue. dropping levels of co2 just a tad as well thinking this should be a cure all. thank you everyone for youre help, i will keep you posted on how things go.
Thanks again,
Brandon

2 odd things

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