Large bulge on the side of my blue guarami
23 posts • Page 2 of 3
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stephkayc - Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:44 pm
well im on vacation until monday...my coworker will be taking care of him...I'll update yall when I get back. Hope he makes it :(
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zambize - Posts: 401
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:14 pm
thisfish said --
"Its a muscle relaxer that prevents the brain from signaling the body.That means that your fish suffocates while the brain is still alert. Awake yet helpless to breath or move. Doesnt sound very humane to me"
You are very misinformed. Finquel is the only anesthetic approved and considered humane by the Food and Drug Administration and the American Veterinary Medical Assocation. Finquel is a general anesthetic used to sedate fish for surgery, for example. The fish's body, and brain, experience this just as we do when sedated for surgery. For euthanasia, a second dose of Finquel is given after the fish is completely sedated and the fish peacefully passes.
I've done this several times and I've never seen a fish have an adverse reaction. Certainly nothing like what they go through suffering in a tank until they finally die. If you're worried about a fish suffocating, that's exactly how many sick fish die when left in the tank to die slowly. Do your research.
Steph -- I understand your hesitation to euthanize your fish, but the reasons you listed are purely selfish and don't consider the fish's best interests at all. Right now the fish may not be suffering, but when he's lost his color, he's listing to the side, and floating at the surface trying to breathe, it becomes a matter of urgency to help him out of his misery. I do understand, and I don't mean to be adversarial, but suck it up and do what's right for the fish.
Zambize
"Its a muscle relaxer that prevents the brain from signaling the body.That means that your fish suffocates while the brain is still alert. Awake yet helpless to breath or move. Doesnt sound very humane to me"
You are very misinformed. Finquel is the only anesthetic approved and considered humane by the Food and Drug Administration and the American Veterinary Medical Assocation. Finquel is a general anesthetic used to sedate fish for surgery, for example. The fish's body, and brain, experience this just as we do when sedated for surgery. For euthanasia, a second dose of Finquel is given after the fish is completely sedated and the fish peacefully passes.
I've done this several times and I've never seen a fish have an adverse reaction. Certainly nothing like what they go through suffering in a tank until they finally die. If you're worried about a fish suffocating, that's exactly how many sick fish die when left in the tank to die slowly. Do your research.
Steph -- I understand your hesitation to euthanize your fish, but the reasons you listed are purely selfish and don't consider the fish's best interests at all. Right now the fish may not be suffering, but when he's lost his color, he's listing to the side, and floating at the surface trying to breathe, it becomes a matter of urgency to help him out of his misery. I do understand, and I don't mean to be adversarial, but suck it up and do what's right for the fish.
Zambize
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Zambize4899 - Posts: 499
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:35 am
thisfish88 said "Ive caught a 20 lb carp that had a tumor that was the size of a lemon. It was almost growing out of his eye!! the surprising part was the fish appeared unaffected an even managed to catch the little lure i using"
Unaffected? Perhaps the carp would not have been caught by your tiny lure if he didn't have a tumor growing out of his eye.
Z
Unaffected? Perhaps the carp would not have been caught by your tiny lure if he didn't have a tumor growing out of his eye.
Z
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thisfish884485 - Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:43 am
He took the lure because it was spring and he was feeding on live bait! Just like the panfish i was catching. You said its the only sanctioned by the FDA right? Why? food. Tricaine methanesulfonate (TMS), also called as MS-222, is white powder used for anesthesia, sedation, or euthanasia of fishes (mainly salmonids). TMS is the only anesthetic licensed in the United States for fin fish that is intended for HUMAN CONSUMPTION. TMS is a muscle relaxant that operates by preventing action potentials. By blocking action potentials, no signals can be exchanged between the brain and the extremities. There will be no sensory input or muscle contractions which would have been caused by action potential, which includes most muscles . Im not saying im against it Z my question was what do you cosider humane?? I think taking the fish out and and spearing his brain is humane because its instant death but somepeople might find that brutal.Oh and I did my homework before i chimed in.
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Zambize4899 - Posts: 499
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:35 am
Many medications originally intended for one species are eventually licensed for use with other species. Normal stuff. Many human medications were first approved for use in animals.
Preventing exchanges between the brain and extremities is a Good Thing. This is part of the definition for being sedated. If you've ever had surgery, your brain was not in contact with your extremities.
I used to own a veterinary clinic, and this is exactly how cats and dogs are euthanized. They receive the first shot just to sedate them, and to make it easier for any humans watching. The second shot stops the heart.
There are literally hundreds of reputable scientific studies, websites, universities, veterinarians, fish people, and even an article on this site that support the use Finquel. I also have a physician sitting next to me who has read the data on Finquel, consulted a pharmacist, and has helped me use it several times. She won't even squash a spider so I trust her judgment regarding what is humane.
The only reason I'm entertaining this whole conversation is because it troubles me when people like you jump in with opinions and selectively cut-and-pasted information presented as facts. Your comments might prevent someone from investigating Finquel for themselves and possibly using it as a humane option to avoid suffering whenever possible. Many people here either state personal experience, verifiable facts, or give opinions, but then most are careful to say that they are not an expert, or that it's just their opinion.
Zambize
Preventing exchanges between the brain and extremities is a Good Thing. This is part of the definition for being sedated. If you've ever had surgery, your brain was not in contact with your extremities.
I used to own a veterinary clinic, and this is exactly how cats and dogs are euthanized. They receive the first shot just to sedate them, and to make it easier for any humans watching. The second shot stops the heart.
There are literally hundreds of reputable scientific studies, websites, universities, veterinarians, fish people, and even an article on this site that support the use Finquel. I also have a physician sitting next to me who has read the data on Finquel, consulted a pharmacist, and has helped me use it several times. She won't even squash a spider so I trust her judgment regarding what is humane.
The only reason I'm entertaining this whole conversation is because it troubles me when people like you jump in with opinions and selectively cut-and-pasted information presented as facts. Your comments might prevent someone from investigating Finquel for themselves and possibly using it as a humane option to avoid suffering whenever possible. Many people here either state personal experience, verifiable facts, or give opinions, but then most are careful to say that they are not an expert, or that it's just their opinion.
Zambize
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thisfish884485 - Posts: 38
- Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:43 am
Your right I did cut &paste some facts after searching it up on multiple websites. I did this because I asked how it worked and and no one responded.Still you persist that the fish is sedated but what does that mean?Does it mean the fish cant move?Does it mean the fish cant feel? Or does it refer to being oblivious to the whole world including physical feeling(Even though fish lack certain areas of the brain required to feel pain) ? Are you going to tell me it is impossible that even though the fish cant move he is not aware?suffocating?To me the shear possibilty is cause to grow some balls and man up and do it yourself?So what do you consider Humane? Maybe its whats easier for you to bare. As for the surgery you are right! What about all those people who claim to be totally aware while being opererated on and being helpless but aware? hmm whatever dude I will get back to this one after i consult my marine biology professor uncle
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stephkayc - Posts: 7
- Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:44 pm
nice.........
Does anyone care how the damn fish is doing? I mean it was the whole reason for my post and neither one of you were much help. All I saw besides killing my fish was a bunch of arguing...real nice guys!!
Thanks for all your help!
Does anyone care how the damn fish is doing? I mean it was the whole reason for my post and neither one of you were much help. All I saw besides killing my fish was a bunch of arguing...real nice guys!!
Thanks for all your help!
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zambize - Posts: 401
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:14 pm
Steph, It isn't arguing. The subject of killing a living being, regardless of the reason or method, is significant and it can only help to share opinions, facts, studies, etc. Otherwise the subject would get no attention, lose its significance and seriousness, and we, as well as the methods, would never improve.
Z
Z
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Zambize4899 - Posts: 499
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:35 am
Aw, c'mon T, not the freezer! Fish are sensitive to cold temperatures and slowly freezing has to be a terrible way to go. I'd rather smash a fish with a hammer.
Zambize
Zambize
