Low Ph

31 posts • Page 3 of 4

Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


Peterkarig3210
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am

by Peterkarig3210

I can't imagine any reason the ammonia is so high and the pH drops so fast except that you must be feeding too much. It's should be a simple equation. If there wasn't excess decomposing material in your tank you wouldn't have this happen. It's not that hard to see that there is way too much decomposing stuff, and the only thing it could be other than a dead rotting fish is excess food haveing the fish produce excess waste period. Think like an eskimo with their dogs and keep your fish hungry. That has got to be what is going on here. Fish will eat as much as they can and they don't need that much food.


spongebob4460
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:37 am

by spongebob4460

Thanks Miami... i have a 20 gallon... i have a penguin biowheel 150 and a whisper 10... for 240 gph total or 12x turnover for my tank.

Also, i do clean the filter pads in water change water, but i was due to replace the filter, so i only changed the biowheel filter pad and didnt touch anything else in the filters. Today I will do a large water change as u mention and rinse of the other filter pad in my water change water.


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

My fault, I reread your post and saw that you said "replaced" and not "cleaned". I know you know what you are doing which is why I said "you probably already know". You sound like you are doing everything right, but adding 6 fish to a 20 gallon probably did stress out the biological balance. That is quite a bit to be adding at one time, but it is not crazy or anything and I would be surprised if that alone got you to 3 ppm. Maybe Peter is correct and it is an over feeding problem. Does alot of the food hit the substrate uneaten? Also, I know when I first started up my cichlid tank, I realized that I had to remove the egg crate on the bottom and vacuum the food that got caught down there. I would vacuum the substrate, but the food that went down below the egg crate wouldn't get sucked up. I start to see a sall spike .25 ppm, so I thought and thought and that turned out to be the answer. Do you have any areas in the tank or anything underneath your substrate where food and debris can be building up?


miami754
 
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am

by miami754

How low did you say your pH got? I am reading around to look for explanations and I read in several places that if you pH drops below or is near 6, your bacteria will start dying off. They were talking about it in the sense that a person doesn't do water changes (no water changes = build up in hydrogen ions = drop in pH = killing of bacteria if it gets too acidic = spike in ammonia). I know you do water changes, but I forgot how low you said your pH got to at its lowest point. It was around 6, correct? Maybe your pH weakened the biological colonies in your tank and then the sudden increase in fish load caused it to be way overwhelmed. Maybe your tank is going back through a mini-cycle. I am just throwing things out there because it seems like you know not to overfeed and assuming you have no trapped debris anywhere, this seems like a probable explanation. Anyway, keep doing the water changes until you get it back to zero.


spongebob4460
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:37 am

by spongebob4460

Yes my ph was getting the lowest reading on the test kit.... a 6.0. Peter, i unearthed some detritus on my last water change the other day... and then changed the water, so there can't be anything decomposing unless its under the gravel filter, but doubtful.... i would have shown ammonia problems much earlier than today.

Normally my ammonia is never above 0.50 so to see it this high was a big shocker to me, especially since my only problem really has been the ph. Very odd. I just changed 50% of the water. I also tested nitrates to make sure i hadnt minicycled and results showed 2.5 ppm.

I will keep the wood out, and see what happens to ph over the next few days. I will also monitor my ammonia. I clean the gravel pretty thoroughly, but i do have a ugf which i have two powerheads hooked up to... I havent had an ammonia problem until today (aside from spikes in my cycle, but im cycled now). I feed sparingly and i would easily say no food hits the substrate (maybe a tiny flake every now and then, but nothing really). I have learned my lesson with overfeeding in the past. My angels eat about 5 granules each, and i hand feed them so it hits the surface for about one second before its swallowed. My rasboras now steal some granules, and munch on a few tiny flakes... nothing hits the bottom, so i dont believe its overfeeding.

I'll test tomorrow... it might just be from my last diggin around for detritus...maybe it kicked up something ugly, who knows... this was a shocker, i thought id be clear by now... every time i solve one thing another pops up!!!!! hate to be so burdensome, but thanks Miami and Peter, u two are a life saver


Peterkarig3210
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am

by Peterkarig3210

I just wish this cycle issue could get resolved for you. I thought of one thing that may help you get a bigger beneficial bacteria colony going. How about adding more gravel? You would greatly increase the surfaces bacteria can grow on with deeper gravel. As I look at your tank I see you use pretty large sized gravel and it's not very deep, so even if you were to double the depth with your power heads you wouldn't have problems with dead space anaerobic bacteria can grow in. I know with my planted tank with fluorite substrate and a UGF the finner gravel gets clogged up pretty quickly and black mold or something sometimes grows at the bottom of the gravel where I sometimes don't get to with the cleaning siphon, but with the size gravel you have it wouldn't be a problem. It's just a thought that might be enough to tip the balance in the right direction for you. I see the wood you have and I have the same kind and it doesn't lower my pH. Just another thought. Good luck.


spongebob4460
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:37 am

by spongebob4460

Hmm maybe the wood was rotting as you previously thought. Either way it seems to have been my ph problem for the time being. As for deeper gravel, my tank actually sits about an inch and half below where you see in the pic... my stand covers the bottom inch and a half of it so you can't see it... plus i have a slope to my gravel where it sits high in the back where the risers are, and gently slopes to the front... i hear this helps for a ugf. I definitely have cycled though, because i have achieved nitrates and kept them for over two weeks now... zero nitrites, and fluctuating ammonia which up until now had steadily been going to zero with my water changes. After today's water change of 50% my ammonia is down to 1.0 ppm.

I think i screwed things up adding those new fish! damn lil rascals have turned my settled world into a bit of a mess for now. But yes Peter... this cycling was a hard thing for me. Next time i have a great idea for a cycle, it might have been done already, but its half fish half fishless: basically you cycle how you normally would with fish... but you do regular water changes. In a separate small tank, you have it fishless and never water change, so that ammonia builds up like crazy... once that small tank cycles, and it should be quick, you can move the substrate and filter to the regular tank.. which should allow it to cycle in a matter of days. This allows the fish to remain healthy, and speed up the cycle process... just an idea.


Peterkarig3210
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am

by Peterkarig3210

I'm not getting an e-mail notification when you reply to this post, and it is checked that I should, so I don't know what's happening, but good luck with that idea of yours. You have 3 filters basically so it should work out for you. I got rid of my biggest eater/polluter, my 14 inch arowana, and the other fish are so much happier. Having to clean 4 inches of gravel and 2 large canister filters and do 30% water changes for my 100 gallon tank is a LOT of work. I hope to have a lot less work now to keep this tank balanced. The spotted gars went from eating live goldfish to eating freeze dried krill without any problem. These are some pretty user friendly and calm fish. I just hope I can afford to buy a 300-500 gallon tank for them in probably about nine months to a year.


spongebob4460
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:37 am

by spongebob4460

Peter, i felt the same relief upon returning 6 barbs and a bala shark... but now ive done it again with these rasboras... they little but they poop a lot.

My PH today was 7.4 again, so thats a relief. My ammonia is still high, about to do another water change. I think my biological filter hasnt caught up to the 6 new fish... which explains the ammonia spike. Hopefully im correct. All other variables clear. Will post results for Miami and you.


Peterkarig3210
 
Posts: 1980
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:04 am

by Peterkarig3210

I can't imagine the wood you have, which is the same as the kind I have, would lower your pH that much. Have you looked into the java moss? I read recently that plants decrease the difficulty in cycling and if you ever put the wood back in your tank it would look good with it growing on it. My tilapia are always yanking on it and it keeps the moss on my wood nice and short like a well cut lawn.

Low Ph

31 posts • Page 3 of 4

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