Ammonia Troubles

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Discuss all topics related to freshwater and planted tanks.


flyinsolo
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 pm

Ammonia Troubles

by flyinsolo

I started looking into how to set up an aquarium a while ago and thought I had it figured out. I started a month ago with 3 guppies in my 29 gallon aquarium and everything was going fine. The people at the pet store told me that a month was enough and that it would be safe to add more fish. I bought 3 little spotted catfish yesterday because I thought they would be good for sucking up the flakes that the guppies allow to fall to the bottom (previously I had been sucking these flakes up). For some reason the guppies refuse to eat the red flakes. I cleaned the tank and added the cory catfish. Anyway, that was yesterday. The catfish have been acting scared and lying at the bottom of the tank and hiding. I checked the tank today and everything is normal except ammonia has moved from the safe to the stress level. I have a 20L bucket and have pulled out that much water per change for three changes today, but the ammonia keeps climbing up every few hours. I am worried about my new fish and even the guppies which had been happy seem stressed out and are largely hiding (I guess due to all the activity), but when I have seen the sunrise guppy out moving, it looks like he may have some reddishness around his gills that I have read indicated ammonia sickness.
I don't really know what to do except continue to monitor and do water changes. I have a fliter that will turn the water over 10 times per hour and have so far been doing that water change about every two hours.
I am new to this and have only learned what I have read. Is this a good way to combat the ammonia rise, through frequently partial changes? Or should I do like a 70-80% change once? Any advice here would be appreciated.


flyinsolo
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 pm

by flyinsolo

Ammonia level after a 6 hour overnight is at .25
Nitrate and Nitrite at 0
water is hard
ph at 7.8
total alkalinity falls between 120-180 on the scale
temp 74 degrees

All the fish are still alive, but still acting in a concerning way. The little spotted catfish sit at the bottom without moving, one of them listing to his side-but no longer hiding.
The guppies who have lived in the tank for a month happily seem to be returning to normal. I have elected not to feed them this morning as I usually do because everything I put into the tank I know produces waste, which produces ammonia. So I am going to let it ride while at work today and hope for the best. Still, if any one with experience would like to offer criticism or advice I would really appreciate it. In the pet store the little catfish were very activley scavenging around, which is why I decided to buy them. At my home they seem near death, but maybe that is how they adapt to new water conditions.


Okiimiru
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

by Okiimiru

Keep doing your partial water changes frequently. You want to keep the concentration of ammonia as low as possible during this difficult time. Reducing feeding is a good idea, but don't starve them to death or anything.

The people at the pet store weren't lying, though; it should have taken only a month for your tank to cycle. Check out slide 8 out of 54 in this presentation on biofiltration: http://www.aces.edu/users/davisda/class ... Design.pdf
You can see that by day 35 the ammonia and nitrite are both basically 0. So they gave you good advice, you shouldn't be mad at them or anything.

As it is right now, with your nitrite at 0 you know that your nitrosomonas bacteria population must be very low, and you're still at the first week of cycling (see the thing I linked to earlier). It's going to take another two or three weeks for the ammonia to convert to nitrite and then nitrate.

So, long story sort, keep doing your frequent partial water changes. You don't want your fish to die during these next two or three weeks from ammonia poisoning. It's work intensive, but ammonia will kill them, so you have to do it if you want them to live. The only other thing you can do other than those frequent water changes is to put a live plant in there, which would eat the ammonia for you and remove it from the water column.

Here's an article about plants that you can read for more info: http://theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_B ... Filtration


natalie265
Site Admin
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:48 pm

by natalie265

Yep, i agree. Keep doing the water changes as needed to keep the ammonia levels down. There's really nothing else you can do until your bacteria colony grows, unless you know someone who has an established tank.


flyinsolo
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 pm

by flyinsolo

I'm staying aggressive with the water changes. Thanks for your advice. Did I add too many fish, or add fish too soon?


Okiimiru
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:19 pm

by Okiimiru

"Did I add too many fish, or add fish too soon?"
No, you didn't add too many fish or too soon. Three guppies in a 29 gallon tank was a proper decision of fish load. Look at slide 8 of this presentation, it has a chart on it: http://www.aces.edu/users/davisda/class ... Design.pdf See? By the time a month has passed, the nitrosomonas and nitrospira bacteria populations should be large enough to be able to process nitrogen straight to nitrate without letting it sit in the form of ammonia or nitrite for any measurable amount of time. Something weird happened; the amount of fish you added and your speed of adding them should have worked out.


flyinsolo
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 pm

by flyinsolo

Okiimiru, ha ha, it has been a long time since chem 101 and that slideshow may as well be written in Klingon right now. I'll look stuff up and try and work through it till I understand what those equations mean.
I really appreciate your help, but it was in vain. The workweek came and although I came home and pulled out buckets of water on my lunch break, the three new fish have died. Two of the guppies have returned to normal, but the third acts like he may have nerve damage. The ammonia level is back to "ideal" and has been there since this morning, but I am changing water anyway to hopefully protect my two remaining guppies.
My next question, if you don't mind, is about how to proceed. My understanding is that this bacteria will grow only as fast as it is fed waste, so I need fish in there producing waste in order to build a bacteria colony. Should I leave my two guppies alone for a few more weeks, or try again adding maybe one or two more small fish and just stay right on top of the water changes from the get go instead of not acting until the fish begin to show signs of stress. I have read that guppies really like to be in groups (which is why I started with three) and will having only a couple be bad for them?


natalie265
Site Admin
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:48 pm

by natalie265

I would not add any new fish until you get your tank cycled. The bacteria that you are trying to grow only need trace amounts of ammonia to grow and multiply, so as long as you have a fish or two in the tank, you should be fine. But yes, changing the water BEFORE your fish begin to show stress would be a good thing! Guppies are not really a schooling fish, so although they might prefer more of their kind, being alone or in a pair shouldn't really stress them. Sorry that you are losing fish. Not sure what the problem is. You haven't replaced your filter media have you? That's a common beginner mistake that will completely foil your cycling efforts. You could try adding some live plants. They seem to help.


flyinsolo
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 pm

by flyinsolo

No, I have left the filter completely alone, but if I hadn't read up on it that would have been a seemingly common sense move. I have also read that the dip in test strips aren't exactly well thought of so I bought one of the ammonia test kits that has you add drops from two different solutions, hopefully it will help me stay more on top of things. Okay, so I'll just kind of reset back to where I was Friday and let the tank ride with the three guppies (the little one is still acting kind of weird) for a few more weeks before thinking about adding others. I will however grab one of the little potted live plants they have at the pet store as soon as I have a chance to look into some info on types and care for the varieties that are available.
I figured that doubling the number of fish would require me to likely double the ammount of care required, I just never expected that I would go from safe to fish killing mode in that span of 24 hours. Maybe I was teetering on the edge of safe with already and then adding those three new one pushed me over the edge.


natalie265
Site Admin
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:48 pm

by natalie265

Well, like okimirru said, after a month of cycling a 30 gallon tank, you would think it would be safe to add a couple more fish. It seems to me that you've just had a bit of bad luck. I actually prefer the test strips, but i seem to be the minority on that subject.

Ammonia Troubles

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